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There you go calling an English translation of the Bible the Word of God again.Well, I take Gods Word at face value, I have no reason not to on the subject of hell.
You claimed that Christ didn't pay the price for the lost. What do these scriptures say? Nothing about accepting or rejecting.
Saint Steven said: ↑
1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
OTOH, knowing that the Book is God's Word only in the original Hebrew and Greek, I recognize that English translations are just that: translations rendered by men, and all the various versions prove that none are perfect. I think that is why some cling with such white-knuckled grips on the KJV. King James' authorization did not make it perfect, nor did the scholars who worked on it, for scholarship is better today than in 1611. My. Two. Cents.
I believe that God picked the date in time, the group of people, and even gave the wisdom to translate His Word into the language that would become the greatest outreach for the gospel the world has ever known.
He (God) signed, sealed and delivered it.
I agree it's a vast ocean. But a vast ocean of what?Steven, I'm not sure that our opponents can read and comprehend the above verses properly, as they read through a veil of hellfire & brimstone. I don't think they understand fire and brimstone for that matter.
None of us have done much more than dabble our toes in the vast ocean of God's Word, so how is it that you propose to take them into deeper water? Jesus told His own disciples that He had more to tell them, but they were not ready.
Older manuscripts, have been discovered which were not available to the KJV translators. I kinda grew up with the KJV but my first Greek professor was on the first NIV translation committee so I lean toward the NIV. I studied both Biblical languages at the graduate level more than 3 decades ago and have several language resources so I do not rely on versions.OTOH, knowing that the Book is God's Word only in the original Hebrew and Greek, I recognize that English translations are just that: translations rendered by men, and all the various versions prove that none are perfect. I think that is why some cling with such white-knuckled grips on the KJV. King James' authorization did not make it perfect, nor did the scholars who worked on it, for scholarship is better today than in 1611. My. Two. Cents.
Yes. They usually claim that I have taken these scriptures out of context, simply because I have posted them. - lolSteven, I'm not sure that our opponents can read and comprehend the above verses properly, as they read through a veil of hellfire & brimstone. I don't think they understand fire and brimstone for that matter.
None of us have done much more than dabble our toes in the vast ocean of God's Word, so how is it that you propose to take them into deeper water? Jesus told His own disciples that He had more to tell them, but they were not ready.
That's not true Laz!Are you a KJVO believer?
If what you say is true, then God put His stamp of approval, and don't confuse that with King James' approval - to a version advocating a "Hell" that God never claimed to have created, a "Hell" God never threatened with in or out of His Law, a "Hell" that depends on words having nothing to do with ECT, and a "Hell" mostly supported by the fictions of Dante, Milton and Mary K. Baxter, among others.
That's not true Laz!
This translation thing you are pushing is shrouded in speculation. You do not have one single fact to support the theories. All you have is speculation.
That's because you try to pick out one verse and say, this is what it means.Yes. They usually claim that I have taken these scriptures out of context, simply because I have posted them. - lol
Saint Steven said: ↑
1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
That's because you try to pick out one verse and say, this is what it means.
You can't so that!!!! You must read the context of the scripture surrounding that verse to understand the meaning.
Show me the money, the facts. You can't! The above is speculation!!Really?
There is NO mention of Hell in any of the Bible's creation accounts. John even mentions that if God did not make it, no one else did, either. FACT.
The worst punishment specified in the law that God gave to Moses is just simple death. Hell is not mentioned or hinted at. FACT.
"Sheol" is a Hebrew word for the grave, the pit, the covered and unknown place.
"Hades" is the Greek equivalent of "sheol," but carries pagan baggage.
"Gehenna" is a Hebrew place name: a place in the real world. You can visit it today.
"Tartarus" comes from Greek mythology, and is used once in the Bible.
All of the above have been rendered as "Hell," while one word is used once, two come from a pagan culture, and none of them refer to the Hell of Dante, Milton or Mary K. Baxter. FACT.
Sorry, Charlie, but I have researched this, and you are just showing your ignorance when you call it "speculation." The translation you are pushing is shrouded in bad scholarship.
Let's try it.That's because you try to pick out one verse and say, this is what it means.
You can't so that!!!! You must read the context of the scripture surrounding that verse to understand the meaning.
Show me the money, the facts. You can't! The above is speculation!!
If something in scripture is not where you think it should be, then it didn't happen. You don't take the scripture as it comes and find that OH that's where that came from, or that's how that happened as you read through.
I have seen your interpretation of scripture without context and I DO NOT believe you have read it. There is no way you could have such lame interpretations unless you were told this is this and that is that.It is a mistake to assume, Charlie. Some of us have read the entire Bible IN CONTEXT to arrive at what we believe, believe it or not.
If you think Steven has quoted out of context, then provide the context or post not.
That is NOT a fair assessment of Lazarus Short.I have seen your interpretation of scripture without context and I DO NOT believe you have read it. There is no way you could have such lame interpretations unless you were told this is this and that is that.
You have not read the scripture on your own taking Gods Word for what it says. If you had we would not be having this confrontation.
I'm sure Laz is a great guy. I just don't believe what he said.That is NOT a fair assessment of Lazarus Short.
1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
I'm quite sure that the present company cannot read and understand the quoted "proof texts." properly.Steven, I'm not sure that our opponents can read and comprehend the above verses properly, as they read through a veil of hellfire & brimstone. I don't think they understand fire and brimstone for that matter.
None of us have done much more than dabble our toes in the vast ocean of God's Word, so how is it that you propose to take them into deeper water? Jesus told His own disciples that He had more to tell them, but they were not ready.
I have seen your interpretation of scripture without context and I DO NOT believe you have read it. There is no way you could have such lame interpretations unless you were told this is this and that is that.
You have not read the scripture on your own taking Gods Word for what it says. If you had we would not be having this confrontation.
Why won't it change?I'm sure Laz is a great guy. I just don't believe what he said.
But that has gone both ways and will not change.
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