BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

[Shrewd Manager]

Empty platitudes with zero scriptures. I would like to see just one scripture, 2 or more would be better, where God, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, say unequivocally that all mankind, will be saved no matter what including the unrighteous, even after they have died in their sins.

I thank God that He's withheld these things from the wise and the prudent.

 

[Saint Steven]

...Christ is the answer, HE is the propitiation because his body saw decay, and we were reconciled in that same body that ascended on high!! And that's why redemption is not separate from the person of Jesus Christ. And the moment we believe in the one who died for our sins, we pass through the veil... reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, washed in His blood, and raised and seated with Christ in the heavenlies!!!

What? "... his body saw decay..." ???

Acts 2:24-28
But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death,
because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.
25 David said about him:
“‘I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
you will not let your holy one see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.’

 

[Skidder]

What? "... his body saw decay..." ???

Acts 2:24-28
But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death,
because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.
25 David said about him:
“‘I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
you will not let your holy one see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.’

Sorry that was a typo

 

[Der Alte]

I thank God that He's withheld these things from the wise and the prudent.

Is that what God teaches you? To thank him when some of His children supposedly do not understand? Should you not be praying for them instead?

 

[Skidder]

Sorry that was a typo

the same one that suffered a brutal death for our sins is the same body was buried, saw no decay,

Good catch, got it right the first time in my post, but typoed the second. Thanks Dave, that was not a good mistake on my part.

 

[Saint Steven]

Sorry that was a typo

Not sure what it has to do with the "propitiation" of Christ either. Perhaps you need to research the definition of "propitiation".

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Skidder]

Not sure what it has to do with the "propitiation" of Christ either. Perhaps you need to research the definition of "propitiation".

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

You are correct... CHRIST IS THE PROPITIATION. Propitiation is not separate from the person of Jesus Christ. Since Christ is the sacrifice... HE IS THE PROPITIATION! Separating propitiation from Christ is separating the body and blood from Christ (the sacrifice). Which is no different than separating the blood from Salvation. Why, because CHRIST IS SALVATION FROM SIN. Christ is our ALL IN ALL... NO JESUS, NO PROPITIATION; no Jesus, no redemption; no Jesus, no sanctification; no Jesus, no justification; no Jesus, no forgiveness; no Jesus, no reconciliation; no Jesus, no resurrection. CHRIST IS EVERYTHING, and in no way is God's sacrifice separate from CHRIST IN ANY WAY, including HIS BODY AND BLOOD. Remember HE IS THE LAMB WHO WAS SLAIN; therefore HE IS THE SACRIFICE, and without the LAMB of GOD there is no sacrifice for sins.

Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

1 John 2:2
And HE IS THE propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent HIS SON TO BE THE propitiation for our sins.

Grace and Peace...

 

[FineLinen]

Do we serve a God that needs to be appeased, either by the death of his Son, or by us trying to ingratiate ourselves to Him?

The more Churchianity paints the Gospel as God's need to be appeased rather than our need for His affection, the more the Gospel gets distorted.

The Gospel of God our Father is good news, megas news of good tidings of great joy for all people. The Father loves us, He always has, He always will. His love is the foundation for reconciliation and the Restitution of the ta pante.

The Father Himself loves you

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Is that what God teaches you? To thank him when some of His children supposedly do not understand? Should you not be praying for them instead?

Give thanks and praise to the Lord and it will be alright.

 

[Skidder]

Do we serve a God that needs to be appeased, either by the death of his Son, or by us trying to ingratiate ourselves to Him?

The more Churchianity paints the Gospel as God's need to be appeased rather than our need for His affection, the more the Gospel gets distorted.

The Gospel of God our Father is good news, megas news of good tidings of great joy for all people. The Father loves us, He always has, He always will. His love is the foundation for reconciliation and the Restitution of the ta pante.

The Father Himself loves you

But you have to understand the Gospel is not separate from Christ. This is the Gospel of Christ. You cannot separate the blood from salvation. You cannot take the sacrifice from Christ and hand it to the flesh without Christ. HE IS THE SACRIFICE. He is in no way separate from THE LAMB WHO WAS SLAIN. To have redemption, the forgiveness of sins, they have to have REDEMPTION, WHO IS CHRIST!!

 

[Der Alte]

Give thanks and praise to the Lord and it will be alright.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

propitiation

Hilasterion. Not pagan-style appeasement of angry volcano god. Very dodgy translation derived from the pagan Greek literature. It's the mercy seat.

 

[FineLinen]

But you have to understand the Gospel is not separate from Christ. This is the Gospel of Christ. You cannot separate the blood from salvation. You cannot take the sacrifice from Christ and hand it to the flesh without Christ. HE IS THE SACRIFICE. He is in no way separate from THE LAMB WHO WAS SLAIN. To have redemption, the forgiveness of sins, they have to have REDEMPTION, WHO IS CHRIST!!

The Gospel of the Father is good news. It is good news for all people. It is megas news of the Love of God for His creation. There is not one element of sadness and despair in the Glad News of the Father of all fathers.

I bring you glad tidings of great joy which shall be to All people

 

[Shrewd Manager]

But in false mythology, there is a hope for those for everyone in fact....
thus the appeal to the flesh and to the carnal mind....

Jeff, you're back, and still ignoring my messages to you. Welcome, but could you please explain how eternal damnation of any can be good news for all. Thanks in advance Jeff.

 

[Skidder]

Hilasterion. Not pagan-style appeasement of angry volcano god. Very dodgy translation derived from the pagan Greek literature. It's the mercy seat.

In the modern translations it says "atonement". I'm not a KJV purist by any means, but I'm also not against it. I like to check other translations, but I prefer the "Textus Receptus" (Received Text) over the "Alexandrian text" for the most part due to the lack of verses. While some prefer the "Majority text". But I like to study all the different translations. The bible I pack to church is the NKJV, but I don't limit myself to just one translation.

 

[FineLinen]

Hilasterion. Not pagan-style appeasement of angry volcano god. Very dodgy translation derived from the pagan Greek literature. It's the mercy seat.

Jesus Christ is the hilasmos of the holos. He is the Mercy Seat where dust and Divinity meet in reconciliation. Jesus the Christ did not come to appease an angry diety, He comes to set the broken and bruised members of Adam1 back where they belong, in the Heart of our glorious Father.

The Father Himself loves you!

 

[Der Alte]

Hilasterion. Not pagan-style appeasement of angry volcano god. Very dodgy translation derived from the pagan Greek literature. It's the mercy seat.

ἱλαστήριον, ου, τό (subst. neut. of ἱλαστήριος, ον [PFay 337 I, 3ff—II A.D.; 4 Macc 17:22; Jos., Ant. 16, 182]; s. prec. two entries). In Gr-Rom. lit. that which serves as an instrument for regaining the goodwill of a deity; concr. a ‘means of propitiation or expiation, gift to procure expiation’ (IKosPH, 81, 347 ὁ δᾶμος ὑπὲρ τᾶς Αὐτοκράτορος Καίσαρος θεοῦ υἱοῦ Σεβαστοῦ σωτηρίας θεοῖς ἱλαστήριον; ChronLind B 49 Ἀθάναι ἱλατήριον; Dio Chrys. 10 [11], 121. The mng. is uncertain in POxy 1985, 11).
① means of expiation, of Christ, ὃν προέθετο ὁ θεὸς ἱλαστήριον whom God set forth as a means of expiation Ro 3:25 (so REB; cp. CBreytenbach, Versöhnung, ’89, 168 [s. below]; difft. GFitzer, TZ 22, ’66, 161–83 and NRSV ‘sacrifice of atonement’). The unique feature relative to Gr-Rom. usage is the initiative taken by God to effect removal of impediments to a relationship with God’s self. In this pass. ἱ. has also been taken to mean
② place of propitiation (as Ezk 43:14, 17, 20; cp. also Luther’s ‘Gnadenstuhl’, and s. on Hb 9:5 below). For this view of ἱ. Ro 3:25 s. TManson, JTS 46, ’45, 1–10 (against him Breytenbach 167f.)—S. also Dssm., ZNW 4, 1903, 193–212 (s. EncBibl III, 3027–35); PFiebig and GKlein ibid. 341–44; SFraenkel, ibid. 5, 1904, 257f; CBruston, ibid. 7, 1906, 77–81; GottfKittel, StKr 80, 1907, 217–33; EdaSMarco, Il piano divino della salute in Ro 3:21–26: diss. Rome ’37; VTaylor, ET 50, ’39, 295–300; GBarton, ATR 21, ’39, 91f; WDavies, Paul and Rabbinic Judaism2 ’55, 227–42; ELohse, Märtyrer u. Gottesknecht ’55; LMorris, NTS 2, ’55/56, 33–43; DWhiteley, JTS n.s. 8, ’57, 240–55; DBailey, Jesus as the Mercy Seat: diss. Cambridge ’99 (ins).—The LXX uses ἱ. of the lid on the ark of the covenant, כַּפֹּרֶת, which was sprinkled w. the blood of the sin-offering on the Day of Atonement (Ex 25:16ff al. Likew. TestSol 21:2; Philo, Cher. 25, Fuga 100, Mos. 2, 95.—JStelma, Christus’ offer bij Pls [w. Philo] ’38). So Hb 9:5, transl. mercy-seat; for the history of this word s. OED s.v.—DELG s.v. ἱλάσκομαι 1. M-M s.v. ἱλαστήριος. EDNT. TW. Sv.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 474). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.​

 

[Skidder]

The Gospel of the Father is good news. It is good news for all people. It is megas news of the Love of God for His creation. There is not one element of sadness and despair in the Glad News of the Father of all fathers.

I bring you glad tidings of great joy which shall be to All people

Yes, but this Gospel that represents the body and blood of Christ given at Calvary, is not separate from Christ. We are not of those who separate the blood from salvation. You cannot separate the sacrifice from Christ because CHRIST IS THE SACRIFICE!! The very reason you cannot hand out redemption apart from CHRIST, because CHRIST IS REDEMPTION. The sacrifice cannot be separated from the sacrifice WHO IS CHRIST!!

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of Him you are IN CHRIST JESUS, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and SANCTIFICATION and REDEMPTION

 

[FineLinen]

Yes, but this Gospel that represents the body and blood of Christ given at Calvary, is not separate from Christ. We are not of those who separate the blood from salvation. You cannot separate the sacrifice from Christ because CHRIST IS THE SACRIFICE!! The very reason you cannot hand out redemption apart from CHRIST, because CHRIST IS REDEMPTION. The sacrifice cannot be separated from the sacrifice WHO IS CHRIST!!

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of Him you are IN CHRIST JESUS, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and SANCTIFICATION and REDEMPTION

Dear Skid: Let's post it again. Jesus Christ is the beginning and ending of our Father's glorious Rectification. There is zero zao life outside of Him. Zero

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Skid: Let's post it again. Jesus Christ is the beginning and ending of our Father's glorious Rectification. There is zero zao life outside of Him. Zero, Nada!