• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

Status
Not open for further replies.

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,523
2,683
✟1,049,359.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private

That all these quotes have to do with universialism I believe is a misunderstanding. We need to have more of the text, not just small sections, because this would give a better idea of their true teaching on the subject.

I know I asked for quotes, I'm thankful for you posting them!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
I need to borrow this for the other thread. I'll bring it right back when finished. - lol

Dear Steve: Freely receive, freely give. Anything I have is yours. Do not bring it back, it is yours.
 
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom

Dear Zoidar: Why are you out of your closet? It matters not what any believe! Hear Him.

The First 500 Years

Universalism, the Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During its First Five Hundred Years


 
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,523
2,683
✟1,049,359.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Reactions: Hillsage
Upvote 0

Shrewd Manager

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.
Site Supporter
Aug 16, 2019
4,167
4,081
Melbourne
✟364,409.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
When I was saved in 2010 I got the Holy Spirit. It was an experience of getting clean inside, like I never had sinned in my whole life. I felt pure as a new born, and that was what I was, born again through God's Holy Spirit.

How do you reconcile that personal revelation of amazing grace with damnation/ annihilation theology? They can't both be true, can they?

Why not re-read Rev 20:7 to the end considering your experience and what happens to the nations in the fire.
 
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,523
2,683
✟1,049,359.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
How do you reconcile that personal revelation of amazing grace with damnation/ annihilation theology? They can't both be true, can they?

Why not re-read Rev 20:7 to the end considering your experience and what happens to the nations in the fire.

Because I got saved from something I wasn't saved from before.

Rev is very symbolic and not the best book to make theology from IMO.
 
Upvote 0

Shrewd Manager

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.
Site Supporter
Aug 16, 2019
4,167
4,081
Melbourne
✟364,409.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Because I got saved from something I wasn't saved from before.

Good, so you discovered God saves, and the baptism of fire and the spirit purifies. But I don't see how your reply answers my question. Where does eternal torment fit in?

Rev is very symbolic and not the best book to make theology from IMO.

Rev 20:7 - 22:8 is a linear narrative. Whether you like it or not, the nations get the holy fire treatment and emerge repentant. Just as prophesied in Isaiah and Ezekiel, and just like you, me and so many others have experienced - praise God. The usual Bible narrative pattern follows:
  • creation/ the gift
  • the fall/ sin
  • destruction/ captivity
  • salvation/restoration/ return/ renewal.
Revelation is the big one, the ultimate Jubilee. It's good news for all. That's the gospel promise, sealed at Calvary, consummated at the end of the age. It's not rocket surgery man.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,393
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,356.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Not sure if this helps. The quote is from "The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge"
by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96
German theologian- Philip Schaff writes :

"In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or
Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other
theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."
 
Reactions: FineLinen
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,261
1,768
The land of OZ
✟345,480.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Because I got saved from something I wasn't saved from before.

Rev is very symbolic and not the best book to make theology from IMO.
Many years ago I heard, AND have repeated often since, that; "The dumber someone is, the sooner they go to the book of the Revelation to prove their point."

PS; Not that I'm saying that's what Shrewd is doing.
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
29,117
6,148
EST
✟1,123,613.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
<SS>Not sure if this helps. The quote is from "The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge"
by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96
German theologian- Philip Schaff writes :
"In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or
Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other
theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."<SS>[/QUOTE]...
[/QUOTE]
No, it doesn't help much at all. The entire 2 page article can be read at CCEL.com. I read it yesterday. There is no, zero, none credible, verifiable, historical evidence in the entire article. There is a bibliography at the end of the article but it does not include any direct historical evidence, only then modern books.
You might want to trust your beliefs on the word of two scholars who have been dead at least 100 years. Go for it. But I require substantial evidence NOT opinions.
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
29,117
6,148
EST
✟1,123,613.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Here is a link to the Schaff-Herzog article. click on pg. 96 and 97. I read it yesterday there is no credible, verifiable, historical evidence only the unsupported opinions of the scholars. The bibliography at the end does not list any historical writings only then modern books. But UR believers quote the above excerpt like Moses, himself, carried it down from Mt Sinai.
- Christian Classics Ethereal Library
 
Upvote 0

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
75
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟301,642.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

I have noticed that you rely heavily on sources you, correct me if I am wrong, have called "irrefutable." They are a trinity of the Jewish Encyclopedia, the Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud. I happen to know that, they too, cite an variety of sources and a range of opinion. I find the first two to be biased, and that is clearly understandable, but as a Christian, I find the Talmud offensive in parts, and I fail to understand your liking for it.
 
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,261
1,768
The land of OZ
✟345,480.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
That's the problem I ran into with him years ago. ALL his references walk on water none of ours do. All his references prove to not meet the very standards he puts on us. Page 97 of his quote had a half page of BIBLIOGRAPHY. So unless he can prove that all that bibliography was lies from the pit of his hell, it's simply his indoctrinated opinion against ours. That's why I've no interest in his opinions anymore. His sources are no more credible than ours.
 
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,261
1,768
The land of OZ
✟345,480.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Thanks I'll see what it says. I don't see myself changing my belief in the two "destinations". I think there is way too much to prove universialism wrong, but it's good to know what and why people believe like they do.
I posted a 'like' because you said it's good to know what and WHY people believe like they do.

I didn't post it because you believe there's way too much to prove Universalism wrong. You haven't even begun to plumb the depths of scholarly support for this doctrine IMO. As for the eternal hellers having more? Of course they do, they are the 'majority POV' in the church today. But when I was growing up as a Roman Catholic we used that very same 'majority POV' excuse to prove that everyone else was WRONG back then too. IOW all PRO-TESTAMENT and just a Johnny come lately pro-tester (IOW Protestant). I was told over and over that we were "the one true holy catholic and apostolic church with roots going all the way back to Peter." All Protestants were just bailing out of 'THE church' who ruled for a 1,000 years before Martin Luther. A truth heretic who was branded as a heretic worthy of death by 'THE church' of his day.

You've not said 'what' brand of Christian you are in good ole Sweden. What church denomination category do you fall into?
 
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,523
2,683
✟1,049,359.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private

Protestant, no specific denomination. I attend Lutheran, Catholic, Pentecostal churches.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,820
74
Las Vegas
✟263,478.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others

For the saved. For those written in the book of life---for the lost there is no restoration. Nothing you have said changes that fact. Nor one scripture says there is salvation for the lost. You can twist the meaning of all the scriptures you want. Not one says that the lost will inherit eternal life, not one says the lost will have salvation.
 
Upvote 0

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
75
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟301,642.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

Pardon me, but have you forgotten the parable of the lost sheep? Have you forgotten that God said He would restore the fortunes of Sodom? I could go on and on, or I could just begin to post my entire 200+ page book manuscript on the subject.

Why do you think we are twisting and you are not? I saw some serious twisting in the pro-hell KJV - the version most often followed by the pro-hell crowd.
 
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,261
1,768
The land of OZ
✟345,480.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Protestant, no specific denomination. I attend Lutheran, Catholic, Pentecostal churches.
I obviously go to Catholic Churches for weddings and family funerals. Dad had 11 siblings and mom had 10. Mom asked me to do the eulogy for dad. I did, with a little ‘gospel’ added. The priest even had tears at one point I was told. And after, several (non family Protestants?) came up and asked if I was a preacher? Well of course I am. I just never wasted money obtaining a degree from man to be considered ‘called and qualified’, like Alter recognizes.

I’ve spent lots of time in the Lutheran churches also because of my wife’s family. We don’t jump around though. We are firmly established in the independent Charismatic Church we go to now. It’s the biggest church in our town, running almost a 1,000. Leadership loves me and my servant wife for what we bring to help their goals. But they do not want me to openly talk universalism.
 
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,261
1,768
The land of OZ
✟345,480.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Of course it's the PRO HELL BIBLE. The word "hell" is in the;

Authorized King James Version 54x
New King James Version 32x
American Standard Version 13x
New American Standard Bible 13x
Revised Standard Version 12x
Young's Literal Trans 0x

Amazing how hell has diminished in all those newer translations. Interpretations where even the modern scholars have had to swallow their indoctrinated bias to try and save a little face for translational credibility. Then there's that old YLT at the bottom of the list with 0, which has preached the truth since 1862. And that same author also wrote the 'still respected' and published Young's Greek Hebrew Concordance. But his bible isn't really considered a CREDIBLE SOURCE here either, by 'those who'd like for us to THINK they are Moses.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.