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zoidar

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My friend Finelinen,

I was born again in June of 2010. I got to know Christ. If we don't know Christ, we don't know the Father. It's not about if our ideas sound good or not, it's about what is truth. We are allowed to believe whatever we want, but truth is still truth, and what we believe won't change that.
 
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FineLinen

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My brother: coming to know Him is in progressive stages of the present tense. Just when one thinks he or she has finally nailed down His movements, additional stars of His vast heavens cascades into more and more and more.

May His exceedingly vast and glorious love that you began to experience in 6/2010 reach degrees you cannot imagine yet. And yes, my friend, I am praying for you in your journey into the outer laminar spheres of where He dwells.
 
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Shrewd Manager

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.
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Beware of strawman arguments.

Yahushua means 'God's Salvation'. God's salvation is the alpha and omega. Salvation is how the age ends. Not damnation, not annihilation, but salvation.

The gospel is good news for all mankind. Damnation and annihilation are not good news. Salvation is good news.

So let's bring it together shall we?

Good news: Jesus saves all mankind.

Ah, the total victory of Christ. The most beautiful truth.
 
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Skidder

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"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved". Saved from what? Is it not sin that separates us from God? Is it not sin that brings God's wrath? Is it not sin that brings condemnation, judgement, and death? So if sin is the PROBLEM... CHRIST IS THE CURE! And without FAITH IN CHRIST they will SURELY DIE IN THEIR SINS and remain under the WRATH OF GOD!

John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
 
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Lazarus Short

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Saved from what - you need ask? From sin, our sin nature, from death. Death is annihilation, so why would God revive the wicked only to annihilate them again? It makes no sense. Sure enough, I found little, very little, evidence in the Scriptures which could be used to support annihilation. For that matter, why would God revive the annihilated wicked just to do them worse in Hell?

God already has told us that His ways are higher than our ways, and His thoughts higher than our thoughts. If we look at the Law He gave to Moses, we see that the punishments for violations of that Law fit the crimes. The very worst punishment is be put to death, and there is never a hint of any punishment beyond that.

So, does God follow His Own Law? I found that Hell is unmentioned in His Law. It is absent from the Creation account. John 1:3 states that if God did make a thing, then no one else did. That is the foundation of my rejection of Hell as a myth. Oh, btw, Hell is also absent from the Hebrew and Greek originals - the word comes from another source. If you remove the word, the concept is gone too: poof.

Poof, how? The Scriptures speak of Jesus the Christ doing away with "all rule and all authority and power." There's that pesky "all" again. Does Jesus also do in Hell, even if it existed? First Corinthians 15 goes on: "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." Don't you need to be dead to go to Hell? Yes, that is the understanding, so by simple logic, if death is destroyed, then no one, NO ONE, can still be dead and/or in Hell. Hell advocates cannot seem to grasp this simple point.

Back to First Corinthians 15:22 - "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." NOT: All who are in Christ shall be made alive. It's a simple difference in wording, but a vast difference in meaning.
 
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FineLinen

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Dear Skidder: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved>>>

And your household."

Assuming you grasp the significance of the rest of the verse, please disclose what it means?

The vast segments of our species die in their sins, not just their sins but in the sin nature.

Adam1 = the many "made sinners">>>Last Adam = the many "made righteous"
 
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Lazarus Short

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Rebecca4Christ, I think your Biblical quote and "He left 99 to come and bring me back home!" are in conflict. The narrow way is into the sheepfold, and there you are safe. The wide way is the way of the world, but if you are there (as you said) then the Shepherd comes and gets you. He loses nothing.
 
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Skidder

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I will repeat this again, only IN CHRIST is there redemption through His blood the forgiveness of sins. Not outside of Christ in any way. You have to be IN CHRIST to have forgiveness of sins. There is not "sin free zone" outside of Christ, HE IS our all in all....

Ephesians 1:7
IN HIM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Colossians 1:14
IN WHOM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is IN CHRIST, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

If we defend IN CHRIST than we defend all that is IN HIM, if we stray from IN CHRIST than we SET ASIDE THE GRACE that has been poured out for us through his body and blood!! But we are not of those who take things from IN CHRIST and hand them to the flesh! Everyone has a choice to accept or reject the sacrifice for sins... WHO IS CHRIST! The payment is not separate from Christ, and if they REJECT the payment because their sin is more precious to them than the free gift of life, THEY WILL SURELY DIE IN THEIR SINS!!

What part of UNDER GOD'S WRATH and DIE IN YOUR SINS don't you understand? Only by FAITH IN CHRIST are we IN CHRIST, and only there do we receive a FULL PARDON FOR OUR SINS through His blood.

John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Ephesians 1:7
IN HIM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
 
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FineLinen

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The punishment of the Father of all fathers is not merely correction: it is correction that improves, changes, transforms for the better.

Our God punishes with an objective in view, not as an end in itself!

There are dual aspects to our Father’s Realm as shown in the following…

Tamiym/ 'ymt means to be consumed, destroyed, exhausted and spent, but also to be finished and made sound.

Kalal has the same meaning, linking destruction, being spent, exhausted, as well as to be finished and made sound.

Tamam, the root word of Tamiym means to be finished, complete, summed up, made whole: linked with to be consumed, exhausted, spent and destroyed.

Shalam/ ~IX, another expression of destruction, has the scope of being finished and ended, made good or whole, & being made sound, coupled with to be restored.

Shebar, rooted in Shabar, means breakout, and being brought to birth; and underlying new birth and breakout? To be crushed and broken. Again there is dual meaning in our Lord’s words of destruction and re-creation.

Chalowph

The destructive Hebrew word Chalowph is rooted in being altered, renewed, changed, and to sprout again. It should also be noted that this is not just change, but change for the better.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis
 
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Lazarus Short

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Understood and understood. We are only saying that since Jesus the Christ will put all enemies under His feet, then all men must be reconciled to Him, even if eternal contempt, at some level, is involved.

I note that each side prefers different proof texts. How to get on the same page?
 
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Skidder

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Twisting the Old Testament does not cancel The New Testament...

I will repeat this again, only IN CHRIST is there redemption through His blood the forgiveness of sins. Not outside of Christ in any way. You have to be IN CHRIST to have forgiveness of sins. There is not "sin free zone" outside of Christ, HE IS our all in all....

Ephesians 1:7
IN HIM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Colossians 1:14
IN WHOM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is IN CHRIST, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

If we defend IN CHRIST than we defend all that is IN HIM, if we stray from IN CHRIST than we SET ASIDE THE GRACE that has been poured out for us through his body and blood!! But we are not of those who take things from IN CHRIST and hand them to the flesh! Everyone has a choice to accept or reject the sacrifice for sins... WHO IS CHRIST! The payment is not separate from Christ, and if they REJECT the payment because their sin is more precious to them than the free gift of life, THEY WILL SURELY DIE IN THEIR SINS!!

What part of UNDER GOD'S WRATH and DIE IN YOUR SINS don't you understand? Only by FAITH IN CHRIST are we IN CHRIST, and only there do we receive a FULL PARDON FOR OUR SINS through His blood.

John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Ephesians 1:7
IN HIM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
 
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Lazarus Short

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Back to First Corinthians 15:22 - "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." NOT: All who are in Christ shall be made alive.

It's a simple difference in wording, but a vast difference in meaning.
 
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FineLinen

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I will repeat this again, only IN CHRIST is there redemption through His blood the forgiveness of sins. Not outside of Christ in any way.

Dear Skidder: There is no redemption outside of Christ! NONE: NADA!

Do you know what it means to be in Christ? Of course you do! Laz and I do too. Now follow the bouncing ball>>>>

"IN/EN the Name of Jesus EVERY knee shall bow & tongue confess YOU ARE LORD"
 
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Skidder

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Do you know what it means to be under GOD'S WRATH and DIE IN YOUR SINS... follow the bouncing ball... Let me help you out. Rejecting Christ brings both...

John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
 
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FineLinen

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Twisting the Old Testament does not cancel The New Testament...

Dear Skidder: The Old Covenant and New Covenent are two sides of an amazing expression of our Father. There is no need to "twist" anything.

Our God expresses Himself in both Covenants, it is not an either or!

The middle Name of Jesus Christ is Lesous
 
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Lazarus Short

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The wrath of God on them - so into the Lake of Fire they go...but even the KJV dares not ID it as Hell. Tell me, what is the LoF for? Second Death?? The KJV says, "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." (Rev. 20:14) Yet, in Rev. 21:4, just a few verses later, we are told, "...there shall be no more death...". No death? That MUST mean that on one is still dead and/or in Hell. Please don't insult me by saying that those in Hell are excluded from the pronouncement, for that is twisting.

Tell me, could the casting of death and hell into the LoF be the death of death/grave/hades/hell? I think so.
 
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