Beware of Sect/Denominational Idolatry--Please

[Cright]

Brother Jim,

Thanks for addressing my responce to the op.

Just the fact that you have responded so many times in this thread makes me feel better. Even if I don't agree with everything you believe, that's fine with me. What matters most is that we're all growing in our savior Christ.

I was afraid you were a troll of sorts, coming to post something to "make us better" and then leave.

I think that you might have an incorrect view of the majority of Baptists due to the minority of militant seperasts that speak their beliefs loud and clear 'from the rooftops' so to say. Unfortunatly, this happens in MANY groups ... the Catholic's for example (setting doctrine aside) have gotten a rep 100X worse since a few priests were taken to court for molestation, and now all priests have a rep 1000X worse! Another example would be the US Military... they were the good guys until a group of 5 or 10 started making some terrorists strip and take nude photo's together... now Military men and women are bad.

As a society we need to be careful not to judge (on a blanket level) as much as we need to becareful not to idolize. As it is easy for Baptists to adore the Baptist church, the Catholic's the Catholics and the US citizens the Military people who defend them.

On an individual level, we may need to judge someone's thinking.. and correct it WITH scripture, being careful to make sure there is not a log in our own eye before concerning ourselves with the speck in theirs.

God Bless,
Carina

 

[rural_preacher]

I know Mr. Preacher I was not trying to pick on the GARBC I was only trying to point out that even telling some members of churches with this "Church Doctrine" that they should all get along was in it's self an affront to some of our Christian brothers. Yes there are extremist and like I said, I have never met a preacher man that I can agree with 100%, so maybe that makes me some kind of extremist. But I'm not about to leave the Church or fellowship for some small insignificant differences that have no effect on Salvation. I have no problem with GARBC, even the church I referenced are good solid Christians and my brothers, and they do leave a lot more BBQ for me. :}

Fat

"Secondary separationists" new term for me.

Understood...

I just didn't want anyone to "stereotype" the GARBC based on your comment about that one church. It is in our human nature to stereotype those that are part of a group based on only a small piece of information.

A "secondary separationist" is someone who goes beyond the biblical teaching of separation from sin and apostacy to the point of separating themselves from all Christians with whom they do not totally agree. Secondary separation is not biblical and leads to divisions which damage our testimony for Jesus Christ. Sometimes I feel like separating myself from the secondary separationists....but then, that wouldn't be Christlike would it.


--

 

[brotherjim]

Hey, Fat.

You know Jim if your going to quote me please use the full quote. . . .

Admittedly, I did not give your post the full attention it deserved. I can offer up one or more excuses/reasons, but I will not risk further offending you. Kindly forgive my "haphazard," and if I in any way/degree inadvertantly distorted your stance. Thank you.

My son met a Buddhist and struck up a conversation about his religion. My son said it was really funny because every time my son would tell him what Christians believed the Buddhist would say "yes we believe that too."

This is going to take the thread off topic, but hey, I started it, and I won't complain about myself to the moderators. {-_-} (Amazingly, and all glory to God of course, in my 3-4 years on 12+ Christian forums, I don't recall even one time having to report anything to a moderator--prayer works far better, albeit one must be patient.)

Anywho, I was struck my your remark of your son's encounter. I, too, through the years, have come across those who are seemingly Christ-like apart from Christ. But never once did I feel led of the Spirit to learn about their religions, for all can be summed up thusly:

When we witness we will find two basic groups of people, the sinner and the self-righteously good. Recall, please, how Christ said He came for the former only. It wasn't that the religious didn't also need a Savior, but they do not know that, neither, for many, will they ever know it as it needs to be known.

But when witnnessing to the religious, I merely explain how true Christianity is not a religion. All religions, whether Islam or Budhism or Judaism or even Christianity when it's practiced as a mere philosophy of life (mainline), claim that there are one or more things which a person can do to have a relationship with God. True Christianity, on the other hand, insists that there is nothing whatsoever that a totally sinful/evil, deceptive human being can do to relate to a completely holy and always truthful God. The two are just too unlike each other. This would then lead into how, after God reveals our sinfulness that we previously spent our lives hiding from, He desires to grant us Graces, freely given spiritual Gifts, one after another, until we have received what we need to overcome this world as Christ also became flesh of man and likewise did.

I can continue, but I think the point is made.

As perhaps a final remark, a testimony:

I was standing in line at the Port Auth. bus terminal in NYC, when a homeless man walked up to me and asked me for money (a very common situation there). I, being street-smart since a teen, said I would not give him money, but since my bus was not coming for some time, I would buy him something to eat. As we walked to the snackbar I asked if he believed in God, and his reply was that he was a Muslim or some such nonsense (I don't exactly recall). I only had 10 or 15 minutes to spend with him, so while he ate I talked about David Wilkerson's church up there. I then explained to him why not everyone is a Christian, and why other religions exist. I simply said--in this case somewhat of a Sovereign Grace remark--that the only way we can know Jesus is the Son of God and that He is the only way to a relationship with God, is if the Heavenly Father specifically, miraculously reveals it to our inner person. Well, in the couple minutes which followed, as he walked me back to my gate, the most glorious countenance befell him. He was grinning from ear to ear, and as we said goodbye I could see it pained him to let me go: God had revealed Himself and His Son to him. Glory!!!! Parise the Name of Jesus!!!! All glory to Him who alone is able to reap. (We who plant and water are nothing, "for apart from Me (Jesus and My Graces), you can do nothing [of any eternal signifigance].")

We too easily forget ours is not a Gospel of words, but of dunamis and zoe-giving Power. I've heard testimony of conversions based only upon the recipient hearing 3 words, "Call upon Jesus," and them subsequently confessing His Name. It is "God who gives the increase," or not, and intellectiual religionists have little chance of receiving it. "For so it seemed right and good in His Sight."

We should never be impressed by "their" insistences.

But of course, there is no pat methodology by which we are to carry out the Great Commission. I was shocked to see posted a question by a fundamentalist on the Theology group, asking whether or not hearing God's Voice was meant a literal experience or only a metaphor. The entire crux of the Christian walk is to hear and obey the moment-by-moment Voice of God within us!!--as compared to following the dead letter of the Law. Such hearing requires a pure heart, the further we allow God to cleanse it the less we are prone to drowning out His "still, small Voice" so easily supressed.

So the best way to witness, since God knows where each person is at and exactly what they need to hear and not hear, is for for us to first reach that place in our prayer closets where we know and obey His Voice, and then when rel;eased into the world of sinners. to speak exactly what He wants us to say, or not. This was what Christ did, never speaking what He wanted but only what the Father gave Him to say.

"Imitate me, as I imitate Christ." - Paul

brotherjim


Thanks to all for allowing me to take this liberty with this thread as I did.

 

[brotherjim]

On an individual level, we may need to judge someone's thinking.. and correct it WITH scripture, being careful to make sure there is not a log in our own eye before concerning ourselves with the speck in theirs.

Hi Carina.

Thank you.

Personally, I have found all that is needed is to preach the Truth. As a result, darkness is "automatically" cursed and lies of the adversary exposed in those to whom God has ordained it.

Recall Jesus saying how He did not come to condemn or judge. Sure, that was "easy" for Him to say: man is already condemned, as the wrath of God has abided upon every one since the Garden of Eden--no exceptions. What needs to be shared is how such wrath can be removed. I find people already know, deep down inside, of their sin. It is far easier for such to make its way through the veils of the heart when confrontation is avoided, and the Word seeded or watered. If it has chance to grow, God will see to it via His Spirit. "Not by might, nor by power [of man], but by My Spirit."

I'm amazed when I see on TV or read about these verbal assaults that Christians make upon gays or abortionists or the like.

All are guilty of not obeying the Three NT Commandments of Love and Faith in the Name of Jesus that Jesus came to earth 2,000 years ago and delivered to humankind from the Father, Jesus further saying obedience to them by each and every one is now required in this dispensation, or the person will be resurrected to damnation. For God is bringing to pass an eternal new world where only those willing to Love will be--.

Well, sorry, I'm preaching again I think.

I quoted you above because one of my favorite ways to witness is merely-- like the Apostles did in Acts before they knew much theology--share testimony of one or more of the half dozen mountaintop experiences I had wherein God revealed some well-rooted but unknown-to-me sin of my heart, ripped it out and replaced it with something more of Him--all glory to Him and Grace alone. And I, like all of us need be doing, am currently working on the next one, for, for one thing, we so easily return to our "vomits" (KJV), do we not?

May the Heavenly Father continue to richly bless you, Carina, in the Name of Jesus, jim

 

[Fat]

Hey, Fat.

Admittedly, I did not give your post the full attention it deserved. I can offer up one or more excuses/reasons, but I will not risk further offending you. Kindly forgive my "haphazard," and if I in any way/degree inadvertantly distorted your stance. Thank you.

This is going to take the thread off topic, but hey, I started it, and I won't complain about myself to the moderators. {-_-} (Amazingly, and all glory to God of course, in my 3-4 years on 12+ Christian forums, I don't recall even one time having to report anything to a moderator--prayer works far better, albeit one must be patient.)

Anywho, I was struck my your remark of your son's encounter. I, too, through the years, have come across those who are seemingly Christ-like apart from Christ. But never once did I feel led of the Spirit to learn about their religions, for all can be summed up thusly:

When we witness we will find two basic groups of people, the sinner and the self-righteously good. Recall, please, how Christ said He came for the former only. It wasn't that the religious didn't also need a Savior, but they do not know that, neither, for many, will they ever know it as it needs to be known.

But when witnnessing to the religious, I merely explain how true Christianity is not a religion. All religions, whether Islam or Budhism or Judaism or even Christianity when it's practiced as a mere philosophy of life (mainline), claim that there are one or more things which a person can do to have a relationship with God. True Christianity, on the other hand, insists that there is nothing whatsoever that a totally sinful/evil, deceptive human being can do to relate to a completely holy and always truthful God. The two are just too unlike each other. This would then lead into how, after God reveals our sinfulness that we previously spent our lives hiding from, He desires to grant us Graces, freely given spiritual Gifts, one after another, until we have received what we need to overcome this world as Christ also became flesh of man and likewise did.

I can continue, but I think the point is made.

As perhaps a final remark, a testimony:

I was standing in line at the Port Auth. bus terminal in NYC, when a homeless man walked up to me and asked me for money (a very common situation there). I, being street-smart since a teen, said I would not give him money, but since my bus was not coming for some time, I would buy him something to eat. As we walked to the snackbar I asked if he believed in God, and his reply was that he was a Muslim or some such nonsense (I don't exactly recall). I only had 10 or 15 minutes to spend with him, so while he ate I talked about David Wilkerson's church up there. I then explained to him why not everyone is a Christian, and why other religions exist. I simply said--in this case somewhat of a Sovereign Grace remark--that the only way we can know Jesus is the Son of God and that He is the only way to a relationship with God, is if the Heavenly Father specifically, miraculously reveals it to our inner person. Well, in the couple minutes which followed, as he walked me back to my gate, the most glorious countenance befell him. He was grinning from ear to ear, and as we said goodbye I could see it pained him to let me go: God had revealed Himself and His Son to him. Glory!!!! Parise the Name of Jesus!!!! All glory to Him who alone is able to reap. (We who plant and water are nothing, "for apart from Me (Jesus and My Graces), you can do nothing [of any eternal signifigance].")

We too easily forget ours is not a Gospel of words, but of dunamis and zoe-giving Power. I've heard testimony of conversions based only upon the recipient hearing 3 words, "Call upon Jesus," and them subsequently confessing His Name. It is "God who gives the increase," or not, and intellectiual religionists have little chance of receiving it. "For so it seemed right and good in His Sight."

We should never be impressed by "their" insistences.

But of course, there is no pat methodology by which we are to carry out the Great Commission. I was shocked to see posted a question by a fundamentalist on the Theology group, asking whether or not hearing God's Voice was meant a literal experience or only a metaphor. The entire crux of the Christian walk is to hear and obey the moment-by-moment Voice of God within us!!--as compared to following the dead letter of the Law. Such hearing requires a pure heart, the further we allow God to cleanse it the less we are prone to drowning out His "still, small Voice" so easily supressed.

So the best way to witness, since God knows where each person is at and exactly what they need to hear and not hear, is for for us to first reach that place in our prayer closets where we know and obey His Voice, and then when rel;eased into the world of sinners. to speak exactly what He wants us to say, or not. This was what Christ did, never speaking what He wanted but only what the Father gave Him to say.

"Imitate me, as I imitate Christ." - Paul

brotherjim


Thanks to all for allowing me to take this liberty with this thread as I did.

brotherjim,
It’s true Jim man is inherently evil and when give the choice of rightness over sin he will always choose sin unless God softens his heart and intervenes. And He has been known to harden hearts if it would bring Him glory.

Exodus 4:21
And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

I’m glad to see Christians taking the opportunities that God gives us to bring the good news to others that God has prepared to receive His word and respond to His call. When God puts you in those situations be joyful that he has chosen you to do His bidding. And to those that never find themselves in those situations there maybe more then meets the eye, as they say. Living the life of Christ may have more effect on those around you then you realize. A small good deed or kind word, may be all that is needed to set Gods plan in motion even though you may never know it or the results it may bring. If you want to hear some tear jerking stories talk to a member of the gideons. A Bible found in a garbage dump could bring thousands to Christ, who would have figured?

Take care Fat

 

[brotherjim]

If you want to hear some tear jerking stories talk to a member of the gideons. A Bible found in a garbage dump could bring thousands to Christ, who would have figured?

Indeed.

Fat, as I was meditating last evening in the Lord, I had thought about your son, and also how I myself have spent about half my working life in direct, outside sales. I guess one point I was wanting to originally make, and failed, was that I would advise your son of a well-ingrained axiom among salespeople: buyers are liars. When witnessing--and young people are especially prone to this by their more trusting nature I suppose, we must not believe the stories people tell us. They are usually a smoke screen; excuses. We must keep our mind focused on Above and on presenting the Gospel, fully assured within ourselves that even those outwardly appearing more pious/religious than even our own selves, are still, apart from Jesus' Grace, black as the ace of spades on their interior, their motives selfishly evil, them seeking the praises of men more than God, etc., etc. etc. The wrath of God abides upon them, and that is often all God wants them to know, well, that and the fact it is only removed when we submit as a totally dependant child, to the Graces only available through the Blood sacrifice of God's Son.

(Hey, anyone, did you see Day of Discovery last weekend? I thought it quite interesting that Hebraic Jews view Christians as idol worshippers, them thinking we serve three gods. They know of and refer to Jesus as "that man." Just one more witness to how we must shelve our pet doctrines, not only of such things as Calvin vs. Arminius, rapture vs. trib., charis. vs. non, but also what we think foundational, such as Trinitarianism (or Oneness). Let's get 'um saved first, and in church, and then we can shove our doctrines down their throats, amen? [Recall how in Acts 2 Peter referred to Christ as "the Man."])

Art (Aaaron) Katz, one of the few truly prophetic speakers here in the West (www.benisrael.org - check out the streaming video interview if he still has it posted), tells a wonderful tale of how intimidating it is to, say, walk into the office of a devout Jew, be faced with all the accolades and degrees ornamently affixed to his walls for all to see and admire, and then find yourself faced with the daunting task of sharing the "foolishness" (KJV) of the Cross to such a highly-asteemed-among-men, but in Truth, sinner.

jim

 

[brotherjim]

. . . and I was further reminded, when witnessing to the self-righteous "good," let us recall the Holy Scripture, "who have a form of godliness, but deny the Powere thereof."

The simply religious apart from Christ, have concluded within themselves that they have attained the best man can do in this life. They do not believe in some miraculous power that instantly cleanses the heart of man, neither in the Graces only available from Heaven through Christ Jesus. Such believe only in man, only in the power of humanism, so they do not believe our personal testimonies, neither the supernatural promises of God.

Then, too, if an intellectual, which many are, they have further concluded the Bible to be little more than "child psychology," someone's idea of how to keep the common, simpleminded folks from getting out of control and all. But as for the well-educated, well, it would be silly--so the human reasoning goes--for them to think that--.

Well, it is summed up in the warning: "be not wise in your own conceits"--which warning, too, they do not and mostly can not heed.

And, hence, why few wise according to this world, few wealthy . . . will inherit the Kingdom of God, it being reserved for the childish and needy and depraved--for which I thank God I was made by Grace such a one.

brotherjim