BEWARE OF FALSE GOSPELS

[Guojing]

What about all the other sins you were guilty of at the time of your believing?
How were they cleansed/washed away?
How was your fleshly minded, old man, dealt with?

My flesh still remains of course until I get the new body, but in the eyes of God, I am dead to that flesh because he sees me in the spirit.

That is reality to him, my job is to renew my mind to that biblical truth.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

In your opinion, which is better?

You are certainly not sinless. If you were, you would not have answered this way. The man who doesn’t sin has wisdom that identifies the heart of the matter instead of the above.

Being like Jesus or not being like Jesus?

A sinless man is like Jesus.

Scripture says..."Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." (1 John 3:2)
How many "sons of God" are NOT like Him?

They don’t claim to be sinless.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

My flesh still remains of course until I get the new body, but in the eyes of God, I am dead to that flesh because he sees me in the spirit.

That is reality to him, my job is to renew my mind to that biblical truth.

Well, God actually sees you as you really are, sins and all.

 

[Guojing]

Well, God actually sees you as you really are, sins and all.

How did he saw Gideon in Judges 6:12?
How did he saw the Israelites in Numbers 23:21?

And that was even before Christ died on the cross and rose again for our justification.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

How did he saw Gideon in Judges 6:12?
How did he saw the Israelites in Numbers 23:21?

And that was even before Christ died on the cross and rose again for our justification.

God did not address Gideons moral state. He didn’t call
him sinless or holy.

I can give you numerous scriptures where a He details the sin they do, Are you unaware of them?

 

[Guojing]

God did not address Gideons moral state. He didn’t call
him sinless or holy.

I can give you numerous scriptures where a He details the sin they do, Are you unaware of them?

My point in using those verses is to show you how God sees you in the spirit, is not the same as how we see ourselves naturally.

If you don't accept that, I am fine too.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

My point in using those verses is to show you how God sees you in the spirit, is not the same as how we see ourselves naturally.

If you don't accept that, I am fine too.

God doesn’t say anything close to that so He doesn’t accept it either. He is not as blind as you wished He were.

 

[Guojing]

God doesn’t say anything close to that so He doesn’t accept it either. He is not as blind as you wished He were.

I am sure you are the best person to know how God really sees us.

 

[LeastAmonyManyBlessed]

So, Jesus was not talking about eternal rewards...?

Especially in that passage...?

Cause he was...



So outer works are better or more important than inner works...?

And with the sheep and the goats, the sheep's works were more of a reflection of what was really truly deep in their hearts, that Jesus considered very important...

IOW's it was not the outer works alone themselves that saved them, but what was truly in the depths of their hearts, because one can still do them without it being a true reflection of what was really deep in their hearts, etc...

The Pharisees did lot's of very good outer works, very dutifully too, did it save them...?



For better or for worse, I agree...



The fruit is not outer works or deeds that you have done, it is "the results" of doing either inner or outer works in general, but not the works themselves...

Again, the Pharisees did lot's of very good outer works, very dutifully too, did it save them...?



I completely agree...



Yes, and...?

If your attitude is bad or you have a bad attitude (easy to take offense, etc) it is a sign that your heart is not completely clean either, and God is interested in and judges "hearts"...

If it is stubborn, bull-headed, self-willed, is very easy to take offense, judgmental and condemning, self-righteous instead of God-righteous, etc, etc, etc, so on and so forth, it is a sign of a not so good or clean heart, on the inside or in the inner man, etc, which God values more than gold or precious gems or jewels... Not the outer man or outer works, especially if they are only done to be seen and viewed by men, but the inner man and inner works, that are "only then" followed up by good outer works out of a good clean pure heart and conscience, which means they will not be doing them to be seen by other men, etc, their attitude will be right and good, etc, etc, etc, so on and so forth...

Which is far, far more important and valuable to God than all kinds of good outer deeds or works in that (the former) aspect... In fact He may even prefer you not even do them at all, if your not going to be doing them from the right kind of heart (and attitude, that is reflected in a person's attitude, etc)...

Again, the Pharisees did lot's of very good outer works, very dutifully too, did it save them...?

But they did it to be seen and judged by men, etc... (Matthew 23:5)

Matthew 23:25-26- "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Luke 11:39- "And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.

The Pharisees are a prime example of a people who did everything right outwardly, perfectly as a matter of fact, but Jesus exposed their hypocrisy and the evil and great deep wickedness of their hearts... So, if you were to examine them for their (outer, outward) works themselves, that you say is the "fruit", then they would have been perfect men, but they were not perfect men, and were in fact, "far from it", because the "real fruit" or the result(s) of their works, was anything but good or great indeed... And Jesus exposed this very, very harshly...

God Bless!

I agree and Jesus Himself said Mt.5:20
For I say unto you,that EXCEPT YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS shall EXCEED the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees,YE shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven

 

[LeastAmonyManyBlessed]

We put on HIS righteousness,not our own self righteousness when we accept His sacrifice for our sins!
I do not believe in OSAS,I believe that salvation is the starting point in our race!
then we run the race with patience and endurance and we SHALL BE SAVED......Mt24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end,the same shall be saved.

 

[Phil W]

My flesh still remains of course until I get the new body, but in the eyes of God, I am dead to that flesh because he sees me in the spirit.

Scripture, please.
And I asked about the "fleshly mind", not the skin.

 

[Phil W]

You are certainly not sinless. If you were, you would not have answered this way. The man who doesn’t sin has wisdom that identifies the heart of the matter instead of the above.

Why no answer to the question..."In your opinion, which is better?
Being like Jesus or not being like Jesus?"

A sinless man is like Jesus.

Amen to that, And hence John's exhortation from 1 John 2:6..."He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

They don’t claim to be sinless.

It looks to me like you can't understand that the fruit of a tree will display the character of its progenitor.
Grape vines cannot bear figs, and God's seed cannot bring forth sinners.
If they can't "claim to be sinless", they have a different father than God's sons and daughters.

 

[Phil W]

We put on HIS righteousness,not our own self righteousness when we accept His sacrifice for our sins!
I do not believe in OSAS,I believe that salvation is the starting point in our race!
then we run the race with patience and endurance and we SHALL BE SAVED......Mt24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end,the same shall be saved.

At the risk of derailing the thread, which OSAS are you talking about?

Personally, I see salvation at the end of the race, not the start.

And welcome to the site.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Why no answer to the question..."In your opinion, which is better?

I couldn’t believe it was a serious question. Is it? Really???

Amen to that, And hence John's exhortation from 1 John 2:6..."He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

It’s those who observe or are the victims of the above ones behavior that get to say. Jesus, btw, asked others to say what sin he did. He never said, “I’m sinless.” Go and do likewise.

It looks to me like you can't understand that the fruit of a tree will display the character of its progenitor.

If you were without sin, you’d never have said that. The fruit of your theology shows your character. It always does.

Grape vines cannot bear figs, and God's seed cannot bring forth sinners.

O I know the theology. I just look at the fruit in the lives of those who claim it and have yet to find good fruit.

If they can't "claim to be sinless", they have a different father than God's sons and daughters.

Agsin, more bad fruit.

 

[Phil W]

I couldn’t believe it was a serious question. Is it? Really???

Yes, it is a serious question. Your posts seem to favor "not being like Jesus".

It’s those who observe or are the victims of the above ones behavior that get to say. Jesus, btw, asked others to say what sin he did. He never said, “I’m sinless.” Go and do likewise.

Which above ones?
Those like Jesus or those not like Jesus?

If you were without sin, you’d never have said that.

Being free of sin doesn't make me a mind reader.

The fruit of your theology shows your character. It always does.

My character is the fruit of the vine from which I have sprouted.

O I know the theology. I just look at the fruit in the lives of those who claim it and have yet to find good fruit.
Agsin, more bad fruit.

If claiming obedience to Jesus is bad fruit, I rejoice in it.

 

[Guojing]

Scripture, please.
And I asked about the "fleshly mind", not the skin.

Scripture for which part?

If you are talking about renewing your mind, I have already stated that is our job to do now. But we renew our mind to what is already true in our spirit.

 

[Phil W]

Scripture for which part?

To your post that said..."My flesh still remains of course until I get the new body, but in the eyes of God, I am dead to that flesh because he sees me in the spirit."
Scripturally, how do you figure He "sees you in the Spirit"? Especially if one is still walking after the flesh?

If you are talking about renewing your mind, I have already stated that is our job to do now. But we renew our mind to what is already true in our spirit.

There was no mention of 'renewing your mind' in my post

 

[Guojing]

To your post that said..."My flesh still remains of course until I get the new body, but in the eyes of God, I am dead to that flesh because he sees me in the spirit."
Scripturally, how do you figure He "sees you in the Spirit"? Especially if one is still walking after the flesh?


There was no mention of 'renewing your mind' in my post

I have used this scripture for another person in this thread but here you go.

How did he saw the Israelites in Numbers 23:21? Why do you think God sees no sin in Israel during that time?

 

[Phil W]

I have used this scripture for another person in this thread but here you go.

How did he saw the Israelites in Numbers 23:21? Why do you think God sees no sin in Israel during that time?

From reading Num 22, which tells of Israel's repentance after "speaking against God", and the plague of fiery serpents God sent to afflict them, there was no sin in them.
They had "turned from" their evil ways.

God sees no sin in non-sinners. We have turned from sin, completely and permanently.
And I thank Him for the gift of repentance from sin.

 

[Guojing]

From reading Num 22, which tells of Israel's repentance after "speaking against God", and the plague of fiery serpents God sent to afflict them, there was no sin in them.
They had "turned from" their evil ways.

God sees no sin in non-sinners. We have turned from sin, completely and permanently.
And I thank Him for the gift of repentance from sin.

They were still complaining and whining non stop against Moses as always.

Even if that is not true, it is hard for anyone to conclude that they have stopped sinning. It's impossible for that to happen under the Law of Moses. The numerous laws stated in Exodus and Leviticus made that to be so.

Yet, because they follow the Lord's prescription for them to sacrifice animals, it was enough for God to declare thru Balaam that God sees no sin in them.

The way they are camped as instructed in Numbers 1, this is a well know image of what Balaam saw when he looked down from the mountain.

View attachment 267911

We have a better covenant, the blood of Christ. If animal sacrifice can do that for them, despite the sins they are committing, what's more the blood of Christ could do for us.