BEWARE OF FALSE GOSPELS

[OneOfTheMasters]

At the risk of derailing the thread, which OSAS are you talking about?

Personally, I see salvation at the end of the race, not the start.

And welcome to the site.

I agree realising we are lost and need saving,something we cannot do for ourselves is key.
Repentance & believing starts with Jesus as as our sacrifice,growing and walking in the word in a continuing,enduring race leads us victoriously home to His heavenly inheritance!

I believe we must start as babes by the milk of the word then grown into maturity by the meat of the word!
Finishing the course as our steps are ordered of the Lord will bring our salvation to the FINISH line..........a winner!

 

[OneOfTheMasters]

Sorry for the name change from Least,account went wrong.........thank you!
Love in Christ Jesus!

 

[Phil W]

They were still complaining and whining non stop against Moses as always.
Even if that is not true, it is hard for anyone to conclude that they have stopped sinning. It's impossible for that to happen under the Law of Moses. The numerous laws stated in Exodus and Leviticus made that to be so.

They may have been clean at the time of God seeing them as sinless.
They did have the Mosaic Law by this time, including the sacrifices for past sin's atonements.

Yet, because they follow the Lord's prescription for them to sacrifice animals, it was enough for God to declare thru Balaam that God sees no sin in them.

Then you d see that it was possible for God to see them as clean...even if just for a little while.

We have a better covenant, the blood of Christ. If animal sacrifice can do that for them, despite the sins they are committing, what's more the blood of Christ could do for us.

The blood of Christ does more than just cover our PAST sins at baptism. (Acts 2:38)
It sanctifies and justifies us too.
And being "immersed" into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection, we are "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life". (Rom 6:3-6)
The result?
"For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
Sinfulness is a mark of the old life, and that life is over.

 

[Guojing]

They may have been clean at the time of God seeing them as sinless.
hey did have the Mosaic Law by this time, including the sacrifices for past sin's atonements.


Then you d see that it was possible for God to see them as clean...even if just for a little while.

The blood of Christ does more than just cover our PAST sins at baptism. (Acts 2:38)
It sanctifies and justifies us too.
And being "immersed" into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection, we are "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life". (Rom 6:3-6)
The result?
"For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
Sinfulness is a mark of the old life, and that life is over.

So you were asking me how I know God sees us in the spirit, how can we still be seen as sinless (noun) in God's eyes, even though we know we have committed sins (verb).

I have given you the scripture reference and the reasoning.

 

[Phil W]

I agree realising we are lost and need saving,something we cannot do for ourselves is key.
Repentance & believing starts with Jesus as as our sacrifice,growing and walking in the word in a continuing,enduring race leads us victoriously home to His heavenly inheritance!

I believe we must start as babes by the milk of the word then grown into maturity by the meat of the word!
Finishing the the course as our steps are ordered of the Lord will bring our salvation to the FINISH line..........a winner!

Dessert!

 

[Phil W]

So you were asking me how I know God sees us in the spirit, how can we still be seen as sinless (noun) in God's eyes, even though we know we have committed sins (verb).

Those past sins were washed away by the blood of Christ at our baptism into His death.
I hope you are not inferring that those reborn of Godly seed still commit more sin after having repented of sin.

 

[Guojing]

Those past sins were washed away by the blood of Christ at our baptism into His death.
I hope you are not inferring that those reborn of Godly seed still commit more sin after having repented of sin.

I see you seem to hold the doctrine that "Only past sins are forgiven but not future sins".

No, I am not saying "Therefore we should go and sin more".

I am just stating that God does not see sin in your spirit, because your spirit is just like Christ in his eyes.

Renewing your mind to that biblical truth is the key.

 

[Phil W]

I see you seem to hold the doctrine that "Only past sins are forgiven but not future sins".

That is what Paul writes in Rom 3:25..."Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

No, I am not saying "Therefore we should go and sin more".

Too bad, as that is exactly what Jesus said.
If we "turn from sin", there should be no more sin after the turn.

I am just stating that God does not see sin in your spirit, because your spirit is just like Christ in his eyes.

You are wrong.
If there is sin "on your spirit", your spirit is NOT just like Christ.

 

[Guojing]

That is what Paul writes in Rom 3:25..."Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

True Paul said that, but it will be silly to form a doctrine that ONLY past sins are forgiven, which is what you are doing here.

Paul also stated that:

1. Believers are no longer under the Law
2. Sin is not imputed when there is no Law.

So what is the conclusion a reader can draw from premises 1 and 2?

 

[Guojing]

You are wrong.
If there is sin "on your spirit", your spirit is NOT just like Christ.

Strange, you can accept that truth for the Jews in Numbers, who only had animal sacrifices, but not for us now, when we have Christ eternal blood on us?

 

[Phil W]

True Paul said that, but it will be silly to form a doctrine that ONLY past sins are forgiven, which is what you are doing here.

It is Paul's doctrine, and I believe he had the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Were your POV correct, what was the point of Heb 6:4,6?..."For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, ...
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Paul also stated that:

1. Believers are no longer under the Law
2. Sin is not imputed when there is no Law.

So what is the conclusion a reader can draw from premises 1 and 2?

Believers love and obey God, so they don't commit sin.
Keep in mind that the law is now written in our hearts, and we can't go against our own hearts.
It is of our new divine nature for us to obey God in all things.

 

[Phil W]

Strange, you can accept that truth for the Jews in Numbers, who only had animal sacrifices, but not for us now, when we have Christ eternal blood on us?

If you want to test Heb 6:4-6, go ahead.
If you want to keep crucifying Jesus over and over, see what it gets you in the long run.
Where is the love for God in a man who has lifted himself up above God's wishes (commands)?

 

[Guojing]

It is Paul's doctrine, and I believe he had the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Were your POV correct, what was the point of Heb 6:4,6?..."For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, ...
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."


Believers love and obey God, so they don't commit sin.
Keep in mind that the law is now written in our hearts, and we can't go against our own hearts.
It is of our new divine nature for us to obey God in all things.

Right, we cannot sin technically because sin cannot be imputed to us, since we are no longer under Law but under grace.

Hebrews was written for the Tribulation period, where you can fall away after you believe in Jesus, by taking the mark of the beast. If you do take the mark, you will be condemned permanently (Rev 14:9-12).

Hebrews was written to remind the Jews, those who will believe in Jesus as their Messiah only during the time of Jacob's troubles, to endure to the end.

 

[Phil W]

Right, we cannot sin technically because sin cannot be imputed to us, since we are no longer under Law but under grace.

It is written..."That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom 5:21)
No righteousness, no grace.
"By the law is the knowledge of sin", (Rom 3:20), so if one sins they are under the law still.

Hebrews was written for the Tribulation period, where you can fall away after you believe in Jesus, by taking the mark of the beast. If you do take the mark, you will be condemned permanently (Rev 14:9-12)

You are trying to justify sin.

Jesus said the truth would free us from service to sin, in (John 8:32-34)
Doesn't that freedom appeal to you at all?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="Phil W, post: 74531352, member: 418801"]It is written..."That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom 5:21)
No righteousness, no grace.
"By the law is the knowledge of sin", (Rom 3:20), so if one sins they are under the law still.


You are trying to justify sin.

Jesus said the truth would free us from service to sin, in (John 8:32-34)
Doesn't that freedom appeal to you at all?

[/QUOTE
======================================
Whenever anyone has been tricked into not repenting,
they have turned away from Yahuweh, away from Jesus, instead of to Yahuweh by faith in Jesus.
Freedom is something they believe they have already, being deceived already, and so they do not seek the truth any more, nor freedom.

 

[Guojing]

It is written..."That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom 5:21)
No righteousness, no grace.
"By the law is the knowledge of sin", (Rom 3:20), so if one sins they are under the law still.


You are trying to justify sin.

Jesus said the truth would free us from service to sin, in (John 8:32-34)
Doesn't that freedom appeal to you at all?

No I am quoting to you from Paul's epistles that we can no longer sin because we are no longer under Law. You understand what he stated in Romans 5:12-19, and especially v13?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Yes some say once a person believes there’s nothing they can do to lose their salvation. That is a reformed misconception.

When you are physically born into this world can you become unborn ?

When you are spiritually born again(2nd birth) can you become unborn?

Should Eternal Life be renamed conditional or temporal life ?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Phil W]

No I am quoting to you from Paul's epistles that we can no longer sin because we are no longer under Law. You understand what he stated in Romans 5:12-19, and especially v13?

If we can no longer sin, it doesn't matter why.
We still can't commit sin.
Which agrees perfectly with 1 John 3:9 which says..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

If one commits sin they are still under the Law. They are not reborn of Godly seed.

 

[Phil W]

When you are physically born into this world can you become unborn ?

When you are spiritually born again(2nd birth) can you become unborn?

Should Eternal Life be renamed conditional or temporal life ?

hope this helps !!!

What is the proof of rebirth?
I mean, honestly observable proof?
Isn't it a changed life and life style?
If one says they are reborn but is still doing the things of the first birth...one has to wonder.
Grape vines cannot bear figs.

 

[Guojing]

If we can no longer sin, it doesn't matter why.
We still can't commit sin.
Which agrees perfectly with 1 John 3:9 which says..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

If one commits sin they are still under the Law. They are not reborn of Godly seed.

You do understand the difference between a noun and a verb right?

I meant, as Paul did, sin as a noun, and not a verb, as what you seem to be saying.