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Since you kept appealing to P1 as a scientifically estabished law: Yes, science does make a distinction. An immaterial cause for something material "beginning to exist" would be, by scientific standards, an exceptional claim.The point of p1 is things do not begin to exist (or come into being) without a cause, whether the cause is material or immaterial. P1 makes no distinction.
Amazing psychic powers you got there! I always need strangers to tell me what I would do if....And guess what..
If you met Him today, and He proved His existence to you, what do you think you would do ?
I will tell you what you would do: You would spit in His face!
You would spit in His face, grab Him by the balls, and tell Him to relinquish His throne and power over to you.
Thats what you would do.
So god had a lot of tries at making us so great, and got it right eventually.You are proof that He exists.
You are a beautiful human being, ALIVE, breathing + tasting + feeling + loving + thinking; YOU ARE PROOF!
This paradise has been killing life since the beginning. It's basic design is what's killing. So what's to be grateful about?As for "the problem of evil", are you saying that you do not believe in God because He did not give you a perfect heavenly paradise to live in? Are you ungrateful for everything He has given you to the point that you hate Him for not giving you everything else that you heart desires? In what way do you deserve a perfect, sinless, love-filled, non-violent, peaceful world?
And do you not know... God gave us that world, and we chose to destroy it!
And He came down from Heaven to live with us, and we chose to kill Him!
If I met him, I would ask him why he's been killing so many of us. Even the bible says he kills us.And guess what..
If you met Him today, and He proved His existence to you, what do you think you would do ?
I will tell you what you would do: You would spit in His face!
You would spit in His face, grab Him by the balls, and tell Him to relinquish His throne and power over to you.
Thats what you would do.
I don't think I deserve any more than I work for. As for Hell, have you seen it? Because all I see is people at the top enjoying a lot here and telling me I will get my reward or punishment after I die. It never worries them they might go to Hell, so why should it worry me?And yet you think you deserve Heaven on earth.
You don't deserve anything but eternal suffering in Hell!
He should of stayed alive or come back and solve some of the problems. And if you think he's responsible, his problems.But: here's the good news: even though you are such a wretched beast, He still loves you.He still wants you He still died for you
Warm regards,
-Taylor
It works great for those with no real answers.Do you think your circular logic works for everyone?
Many people have claimed to have met god, Jesus, or the new messiah, or a different messiah. Do I really need to list them all?And guess what..
If you met Him today, and He proved His existence to you, what do you think you would do ?
I will tell you what you would do: You would spit in His face!
You would spit in His face, grab Him by the balls, and tell Him to relinquish His throne and power over to you.
Thats what you would do.
Or 3 you are confusing the conclusion of the KCA version I offered for discussion:You ignored the rest of my post (in bold):
To clarify, given that most cosmologists and philosophers are apparently atheists, there are a few possibilities worth considering: (1) they have never heard of the KCA; (2) they have heard of the KCA and either (a) find it unconvincing or (b) find it convincing but do not draw theological conclusions from it.
So the KCA is not an argument for the existence of God? Or do you think that 2b is likely?Or 3 you are confusing the conclusion of the KCA version I offered for discussion:
"Therefore, the universe had a cause for its existence"
...with some other version:
"Therefore, God exists."
I've been asking for a list of scientists who disagree with the conclusion of the KCA as I represented it:
"Therefore, the universe had a cause for it's existence."
Please provide a list of scientists who claim that the universe does not have a cause for it's existence.
You are begging the question by using this "causal intuitions" phrase because how could intuitions exist without people, eh? However, the reality that effects have causes is not contingent on the existence of people.Given that our causal intuitions developed in a universe of physical laws, such as F=ma, we cannot be certain that those intuitions would remain intact in the absence of those laws.
This response doesn't even make sense. You are appealing to our causal intuitions, not me. So how am I begging the question?You are begging the question by using this "causal intuitions" phrase because how could intuitions exist without people, eh? However, the reality that effects have causes is not contingent on the existence of people.
Are you asking about their professional claims (i.e. results of their researches) or about their private beliefs?I've been asking for a list of scientists who disagree with the conclusion of the KCA as I represented it:
"Therefore, the universe had a cause for it's existence."
I think the traits that we can extrapolate for the cause suggest a narrow list which include God. I'm still waiting on your list of scientists who claim that the universe did not have a cause for its existence. Should I expect this list anytime soon?So the KCA is not an argument for the existence of God? Or do you think that 2b is likely?
What are you extrapolating from?I think the traits that we can extrapolate for the cause suggest a narrow list which include God.
That's not what I claimed.I'm still waiting on your list of scientists who claim that the universe did not have a cause for its existence. Should I expect this list anytime soon?
This is a thread dedicated to put a particular argument to scrutinity, and it was opened by a "faithful".Well, I have some proof that you hate God and his faithful to the point of joining a Christian forum to antagonize belivers. The proof of our faith is in the lives that we live.
This is a thread dedicated to put a particular argument to scrutinity, and it was opened by a "faithful".
So your antagonizing general rants are uncalled for here.
And if your posts are part of the life you live, I´m not sure they are proof what you feel they are proof for.
Your psychic skills are lacking. Better not quit your day job.I was responding to another but I see the truth in my reply applied to the motivation of your presence here as well.
You're asking for a list of scientist who don't even consider this a real question. They're still looking for the cause, I gave you a list of the research. Here it is again. What caused the big bang?I'm still waiting on your list of scientists who claim that the universe did not have a cause for its existence.
As for hating god. How can I hate something I don't even know exists? What I do hate is people who have jumped on the faith band wagon to manipulate others. From mass murder to eating a wafer in church.Well, I have some proof that you hate God and his faithful to the point of joining a Christian forum to antagonize belivers. The proof of our faith is in the lives that we live.
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