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So you're saying that if something else exists besides God that doesn't have a cause then that would invalidate the existence of God....?
Nope. I said that special pleading would invalidate the argument, because if a premise relies on a logical fallacy it isn't sound.
Without getting too deep, I always thought the best argument that deists have is love. Conversely the best argument against is suffering. Suffering can be answered from a believer to a believer, but they're not going to be a believer in order to hear the argument FOR God in suffering unless they believe God exists in the first place. It's an unsolvable argument for a non-believer, so in order to understand the answer to suffering, which is the best argument against God, one must believe in God in the first place. Faith is a gift to those who ask for it. It is a gift of love. God is love. And all who live in love, live in God. Hey....is that fresh coffee I smell. mmmmmmm. Gotta go.Hello all,
In your opinion, what's the very best argument for the existence of God? Conversely, what's the top argument against the existence of God? Interested to hear your responses and subsequent reasoning. Thanks!
OK. And how would something else (other than God) existing without a cause invalidate the argument and be a logical fallacy?
Your God is off limits, huh?
So are you now targeting atheists only ? Or was that your target all along ?Is there any atheist here willing to step up and concur with that probability?
I honestly don't. I'll review...You know exactly what I mean.
So if everything also includes god, then according to p1 god has a cause for his existence.
You are incorrect. You keep skipping the adjective phrase that makes the distinction.1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause for it's existence.
Only the atheists are disputing you ? AFAIK, I'm not an atheist and I've disputed you. From what I understand, so have others who don't self-identify as atheist also disputed you in this thread.It's only the atheists that seem to be disputing me.
I didn't see a faith designation. So you believe in God?Only the atheists are disputing you ? AFAIK, I'm not an atheist and I've disputed you. From what I understand, so have others who don't self-identify as atheist also disputed you in this thread.
As a side note, if it were up to me, there would be no "faith designation". I think it would make conversations much more interesting and revealing.I didn't see a faith designation. So you believe in God?
nervermind. I don't want to get drawn off topic. I'll wait for one of the responders who openly claim that they do not believe in my god and also have been disputing me in this thread regarding the KCA to respond.As a side note, if it were up to me, there would be no "faith designation". I think it would make conversations much more interesting and revealing.
Define what you mean by "God" and I may tell you whether or not I believe in what you define and describe.
So you are "targeting" specific people. Got it.nervermind. I don't want to get drawn off topic. I'll wait for one of the responders who openly claim that they do not believe in my god and also have been disputing me in this thread regarding the KCA to respond.
Mmmm. I'm finding this one unlikely. If there is such a thing as a dragon, he would have a body and might have wings. I'm also not seeing where he got the fire from. Fire requires some air, fuel, and an ignition source. If the universe had not been created yet, I don't see how all these material things could have existed. To submit that something material could have created the material universe is incoherent, since the material would have had to exist in order to create itself.The universe most likely had a beginning, but it might not have either. Great. If the universe had a beginning, then I claim that a fire breathing dragon let out a breath and the universe came to be. This dragon always existed. Seriously.
1) Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2) The universe 'began' to exist
3) Therefore, the universe has a cause for its existence.
This dragon that created the universe did not "begin to exist". He's exempt from everything that began to exist.
The End.
again, silly. I'm asking the people who claimed that my god did not exist and also disputed the KCA. Why would I ask people who believe in God and agree with the KCA?So you are "targeting" specific people. Got it.
Mmmm. I'm finding this one unlikely. If there is such a thing as a dragon, he would have a body and might have wings. I'm also not seeing where he got the fire from. Fire requires some air, fuel, and an ignition source. If the universe had not been created yet, I don't see how all these material things could have existed. To submit that something material could have created the material universe is incoherent, since the material would have had to exist in order to create itself.
Yes I can see what your opinion of what is "silly" as well as what is "rock solid" is.again, silly. I'm asking the people who claimed that my god did not exist and also disputed the KCA. Why would I ask people who believe in God and agree with the KCA?
What about people who beiieve in a God and don´t agree that the KCA is a good argument for a God´s existence (IOW people who don´t let their personal beliefs get in the way of their grasp on logic)?again, silly. I'm asking the people who claimed that my god did not exist and also disputed the KCA. Why would I ask people who believe in God and agree with the KCA?
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