Believe "...IN...", or "...INTO..."... What exactly is it?

[d taylor]

I wonder, d taylor... Why is it difficult for you to receive that we believe INTO Christ Jesus?

Isn't believing INTO Him far more wonderful than just using our fallen human reasoning to believe in Him?

I would think so... Unless you are adamant on holding to and promoting your flesh.

Amen.

Well why don't you rewrite The Bible where every time a verse uses in you can change it to into. Since for some reason you believe people who in the past, that have translated the current Bibles. Have it wrong by using in instead of into for their English translations.

eis: to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, fig. purpose, result)
Original Word: εἰς
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: eis
Phonetic Spelling: (ice)
Definition: to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, purpose, result)
Usage: into, in, unto, to, upon, towards, for, among.

 

[Above & Beyond]

Well why don't you rewrite The Bible where every time a verse uses in you can change it to into. Since for some reason you believe people who in the past, that have translated the current Bibles. Have it wrong by using in instead of into for their English translations.

eis: to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, fig. purpose, result)
Original Word: εἰς
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: eis
Phonetic Spelling: (ice)
Definition: to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, purpose, result)
Usage: into, in, unto, to, upon, towards, for, among.

I don't need to rewrite "...The Bible...", I simply need to not think that everything in a Bible translation (there are many) is a perfect presentation of what is in the manuscripts Bible translations are taken from... And do the required research before the Lord Spirit, as led to by the Lord spirit.

Nothing that I have presented isn't in and has been in for almost two hundred years, both word translation reference resources produced by two highly recognized Hebrew and Greek linguists, Strong and Thayer.

All that is needed is for a person to encounter the matter, and then, instead of thinking they know it all, or just being lazy and accepting what is being presented to them by others, just be humble and go check it out... You know, the way the noble Bereans took regarding the apostle Paul's speaking.

And take a close look at the definition that you copied and pasted...

It clearly states that the meaning of "...eis..." is "...to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, fig. purpose, result)".

Do you think this is the wrong translation of the word... I think not, as you would not have posted it.

But look further down and we see how the word was used (meaning translated) in various verses... One use being "...in...".

Thing is... This way of translating the word "...eis..." doesn't change the fact that it means "...to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, fig. purpose, result).

Do you get what I'm saying?

The word "...eis..." still means "...to or into...", because it is a preposition indicating movement to a point that is not the original point it was at.

You could say to a child, "Put your show in the closet..."... But what you actually meant was put your shoes into the closet.

And once the shoes had been put into the closet... Then you could say that the shoes were in (positionally) the closet.

And properly understanding this only helps make the reality of the matter of being born-again of God absolutely clear.

And why not make the matter of our believing INTO Christ Jesus absolutely clear to all believers... Why desire to leave the matter in some sort of unclear vague ambiguity that we know historically has led to error?

Isn't it the better thing to help other believers properly understand the reality of God's given wording regarding a matter?

So no...

I'm not on any kind of mission to rewrite the Bible... I'm simply doing what it says in the Bible that we are supposed to do for one another... Build one another up in the truth (1 Thes. 5:11).

But I can't force anyone to believe what I'm saying, nor am I trying to... That's the Lord's business.

But now that you've encountered this matter... You have a responsibility to take it before the Lord... And if you do, or don't, will be a matter for Him alone to judge.

I've done my part in presenting it.

And, BTW... There already is a Bible version that uses the correct translation of the word "...eis...".

And I give thanks that 500+ years ago there were believers (Luther and his contemporaries, before and after) who were strong enough in their faith to take a different way that the Roman Catholic religion had been forcing on them for centuries.

May believers today stand with the same courage and pursuing-God disposition.

Amen.

 

[d taylor]

I don't need to rewrite "...The Bible...", I simply need to not think that everything in a Bible translation (there are many) is a perfect presentation of what is in the manuscripts Bible translations are taken from... And do the required research before the Lord Spirit, as led to by the Lord spirit.

Nothing that I have presented isn't in and has been in for almost two hundred years, both word translation reference resources produced by two highly recognized Hebrew and Greek linguists, Strong and Thayer.

All that is needed is for a person to encounter the matter, and then, instead of thinking they know it all, or just being lazy and accepting what is being presented to them by others, just be humble and go check it out... You know, the way the noble Bereans took regarding the apostle Paul's speaking.

And take a close look at the definition that you copied and pasted...

It clearly states that the meaning of "...eis..." is "...to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, fig. purpose, result)".

Do you think this is the wrong translation of the word... I think not, as you would not have posted it.

But look further down and we see how the word was used (meaning translated) in various verses... One use being "...in...".

Thing is... This way of translating the word "...eis..." doesn't change the fact that it means "...to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, fig. purpose, result).

Do you get what I'm saying?

The word "...eis..." still means "...to or into...", because it is a preposition indicating movement to a point that is not the original point it was at.

You could say to a child, "Put your show in the closet..."... But what you actually meant was put your shoes into the closet.

And once the shoes had been put into the closet... Then you could say that the shoes were in (positionally) the closet.

And properly understanding this only helps make the reality of the matter of being born-again of God absolutely clear.

And why not make the matter of our believing INTO Christ Jesus absolutely clear to all believers... Why desire to leave the matter in some sort of unclear vague ambiguity that we know historically has led to error?

Isn't it the better thing to help other believers properly understand the reality of God's given wording regarding a matter?

So no...

I'm not on any kind of mission to rewrite the Bible... I'm simply doing what it says in the Bible that we are supposed to do for one another... Build one another up in the truth (1 Thes. 5:11).

But I can't force anyone to believe what I'm saying, nor am I trying to... That's the Lord's business.

But now that you've encountered this matter... You have a responsibility to take it before the Lord... And if you do, or don't, will be a matter for Him alone to judge.

I've done my part in presenting it.

And, BTW... There already is a Bible version that uses the correct translation of the word "...eis...".

And I give thanks that 500+ years ago there were believers (Luther and his contemporaries, before and after) who were strong enough in their faith to take a different way that the Roman Catholic religion had been forcing on them for centuries.

May believers today stand with the same courage and pursuing-God disposition.

Amen.

...I completely understand what being born again means and knowing whether it is in or into does not change that.

But trying to figure out exactly what you are saying with this " in vs into ".
....Looks like you are pushing that using in is promoting a false belief. That actually what these verses are saying that uses "eis" is that to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and to become a born again child of God. A person can not have a one moment in time faith in Jesus. They must have a lifetime "into" faith in Jesus, meaning they must believe their whole life into Jesus for their faith to actually bring them eventually to a born again position.

 

[Above & Beyond]

...I completely understand what being born again means and knowing whether it is in or into does not change that.

But trying to figure out exactly what you are saying with this " in vs into ".
....Looks like you are pushing that using in is promoting a false belief. That actually what these verses are saying that uses "eis" is that to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and to become a born again child of God. A person can not have a one moment in time faith in Jesus. They must have a lifetime "into" faith in Jesus, meaning they must believe their whole life into Jesus for their faith to actually bring them eventually to a born again position.

Based on you saying "...knowing whether it is in or into does not change that..." suggests that you do not understand what being born-again of God is... If you did, you would understand that believing "...into..." the Son is the only way to be born-again of God.

Additionally... the question of your belief in what biblical scripture actually says also comes into question, as the actual Greek word used in biblical scripture regarding the matter of being born-again of God, is "...eis...", which means "...into...", not "...in...".

See... If we were speaking Greek, there would be absolutely no thought of "...in...", as the Greek word for "...in..." is "...en...", not "...eis..."... And "...en..." is not used in the scripture we are referencing.

Perhaps, if you simply stopped being subject to the English language, and thought in Greek, you'd better understand what is actually being said.

I sometimes wonder if people are just clueless about the fact that biblical scripture was not originally written in English.

Moving on... A person can absolutely "...have one moment in time..." in which they believe into Christ Jesus and are eternally saved... And yet, after that "...one moment on time...", fall back into their fallen natural man, which means that they do not continue believing in the same way that they did in that "...one moment in time...".

But if they do... It does not mean that they lose their eternal salvation... Which is what you're trying to dishonestly suggest that I am saying... And I say dishonestly, as I have not said nor suggested this in any of my speaking... If someone is eternally saved, then that person is eternally saved... It is a gift from God that the person has received that cannot rescinded by God.

But biblical scripture is clear... God's salvation of man is not only about man receiving eternal life... God's salvation of man is about man receiving eternal life... UNTO... all who have received eternal life becoming the eternal dwelling place of God.

Can you understand that?

It's like a man and woman getting married... They have made the commitment to one another and go to the courthouse and sign a piece of paper that lawfully makes them a married couple... But them what... Do they just go back to living their lives as individual humans... Or do they now have a responsibility to one another to now live their lives as a married couple?
Not living their lives as a married couple won't change the fact that they are married... But not living their lives as a married couple doesn't testify to them being married... Nor does it create an environment that testifies to them being married.

Scripture is absolutely clear... God isn't after man having eternal life... God is after having an eternal dwelling place in man... God is after a counterpart — a bride — that matches Him, that He can marry and be one with.

Unfortunately, what most who claim to be Christian think is that God's gift of eternal life to them is all about them... That they have eternal life and will go to heaven and be with God forever.

And they give no thought to what God wants... No though to what God desires... As presented in scripture.

Go ask a Christian what God wants, and they will more than likely tell you that God desires all men be eternally saved (except for Calvinists, who would tell you that God desires that the elect be eternally saved)... Which wouldn't be a lie... But it would be short of the whole truth... Which effectively makes it a lie.

So when you suggest that I am saying this, "...A person can not have a one moment in time faith in Jesus. They must have a lifetime "into" faith in Jesus, meaning they must believe their whole life into Jesus for their faith to actually bring them eventually to a born again position...", you're actually, as I said earlier, being dishonest in your suggestion of what I am saying... AND... you're actually exposing your own poor understanding of what biblical scripture actually tells us.

Here's why...

When a person believes "...into..." Jesus, they are "...transferred/translated..." from where they were, to where actually, Who) they have believed into... Which is Christ Jesus.

Colossians 1:13... "Who delivered us out of the authority of darkness and transferred (KJV, translated) us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,...".

Christ Jesus, His Person, is the reality of "...the kingdom of the Son of His love...".

And so the "...moment in time..." that a person believes in the gospel they heard they are instantly transferred/translated INTO Christ Jesus.

And as scripture tells us... Jesus will not lose any that He has been given...

John 6:39-40... "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I should lose nothing but should raise it up in the last day. . . . For this is the will of My Father, that every one who beholds the Son and believes into Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up in the last day."

So here we have indisputable speaking regarding the eternal salvation of anyone who has, in a "...moment of time.." believed into Christ Jesus... None will lose their eternal salvation.
And yet, we know from the following scripture verse...

Philippians 2:12... "So then, my beloved, even as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but now much rather in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;...".

How can a saved person "...work out..." their salvation?

The Greek word translated as "...work out..." is "...katergazomai..." (transliteration), and means "...to perform, accomplish, achieve... to work out i.e. to do that from which something results...".

So here in Philippians 2:12, the apostle Paul tells us that we need to do some work that brings about an achieved result.

But we know that salvation is a free gift of grace from God that requires no work on our part... So what is Paul saying... Is he contradicting scripture that tells us that our salvation is a free gift of grace?

No... Scripture doesn't contradict itself... What Paul is telling us is that there is another aspect of salvation that has to do with our working it out.

This brings up the questions of how do we work out our salvation, and, why do we need to work out our salvation.

But also... We also know from scripture that we cannot lose our salvation... So what happens if we don't work out our salvation?

And the answers to these questions are all found in the proper understanding of what believing "...INTO..." Christ Jesus actually means... And why it is crucially important to our Christian walk for us to be clear regarding it.

Amen.

 

[OldAbramBrown]

In my young day there was a doctrine we used to call "assurance" which the fundamentalists have totally abolished everywhere.

We have been bullied if we use the word "hope" in conversation.

Another thing though, in my young day people said "believe on Jesus".

 

[bbbbbbb]

In my young day there was a doctrine we used to call "assurance" which the fundamentalists have totally abolished everywhere.

We have been bullied if we use the word "hope" in conversation.

Another thing though, in my young day people said "believe on Jesus".

Yes, the doctrine of once-saved, always-saved is being ridiculed, especially here at CF, even by Calvinists.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Dr. Luther described Christian faith as a "bold trust in God's grace".

A bold, radical trust in what God has promised. And thus faith in Christ is to trust Jesus. Trust what Jesus has done and trust what Jesus said. This faith cannot come from myself, but comes from outside of myself--extra nos--from the God who is giver of "every good and perfect gift". For faith itself is grace from God, through the effectual promise of God. so that the Gospel is alive, it is the very "power of God to save all who believe".

I am born again not because of anything I do. God has regenerated me by His grace alone, by giving me faith; so that having heard His promise, believing that promise, I can be confident in what He has said, confident in what Christ has done for me. And it is Christ alone who reconciles me, a sinner, with the Father, by granting me adoptive sonship, making me a new person in Himself. So that, united and joined to Christ, I am in Christ and with Christ before the Father. Now, through faith by the active power of the Holy Spirit who makes me alive by grace; and in the end when this mortal body is made immortal and even in my flesh I behold the light and goodness of God I shall be everything that is promised to me. For what we behold now through hope and faith shall be made perfect on that future Day.

So I gaze to Christ, through faith, by the power of the Spirit, trusting in the promise of God confident that all that He has said and promised is true and will come to pass. In this I am a new person, alive to God--born again--and am being made into the image-bearer of God in Christ by being conformed to the image of Christ. And therefore in Christ, by grace, by the power of the Spirit we are made partakers of the divine nature; sharers in the life of God the Holy Trinity. Now by faith, seeing through a glass dimly, and then in the end face-to-face; knowing even as we are known.

-CryptoLutheran