Believe in miracles but don’t depend on them

[timur123456789]

What do you think of this quote from author H. Jackson Brown, Jr. (Life's Little Instruction Book):

“Believe in miracles but don’t depend on them.”​

Laurence J. Peter (The Peter Principle) took a different view. He said,

“Don’t believe in miracles, depend on them.”​

IYO, which is right?

We should never depend on Miracles, rather believe that they had happened in the past.

8 The love doth never fail; and whether [there be] prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless;
(1Co.13:8)

Love never fails, for all prophesies become useless and and tongues shall cease and knowledge become useless without love.

We shall love one each other at first, and believe in miracles but never depend on them.

 

[K2K]

We should never depend on Miracles, rather believe that they had happened in the past.

8 The love doth never fail; and whether [there be] prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless;
(1Co.13:8)

Love never fails, for all prophesies become useless and and tongues shall cease and knowledge become useless without love.

We shall love one each other at first, and believe in miracles but never depend on them.

I find this so sad, not that I want to be cretical, but this is sad.

When we get to heaven, and an a time when we all are healthy, and all see the Lord face to face, then the gifts of the Spirit will certainly not be needed at that time, but now we have sickness, and we have disbelief, and we see with dark colored glass and barely hear. Now the gifts are so important. Jesus said they would do greater things than Him in the last days.

If someone is sick, doesn't a loving person want them healed? So to talk about love and not believe a loving God wants them healed is just extremely sad. God is love and He wants people healed, but Jesus told the people in His home town that He (God) couldn't do miracles there because of their disbelief.

I personally have had my knee instantly healed but the Lord, and a growth instantly removed by the Lord, and cold healed in ten minutes, a fever gone instantly, and more. And I have prayed for people and seen God heal a heart problem so that they didn' have to go through a planned surgery the next day. I have seen carpel tunnel sydrome healed instantly, a back healed instantly, head and shoulder pain instantly, a swollen knee go down under my hand, a stomach healed instantly, a shoulder healed instantly, a swollen wrist return to normal in less than an hour, a foot healed instantly, and a found out that a lady a friend and myself were praying for because she was in the hospital and they felt she was going to die did die and Jesus appeared to her and her heart started beating again and she was perfectly well the next day.

And I know people whose testimonies about what Jesus has done for them and around them are far more incredible than those I gave quickly above.

If you love people you will pray for them!!!!!!

And if you love people you will desire the gifts because the gifts of the Spirit help you help people!!!!

And if you love God you will do what He says!!!

1 Cor 14:1 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts...

So are we going to do what God says?

Are we going to desire the spiritual gifts???

Not even the gift of healing and miracles so that you might be able to help someone???

It almost makes me sick when I hear someone try to tell me how much love they have, so they don't need the gifts. People if you have so much love, you will want to help the people, so you will want the spiritual gifts in order to help them.

God reproves those He loves, so don't think my reproof is a sign that I don't love, even the one posting above.

Please desire the gifts so that you might help others. Do it because you love them!!!

 

[timur123456789]

I find this so sad, not that I want to be cretical, but this is sad.

When we get to heaven, and an a time when we all are healthy, and all see the Lord face to face, then the gifts of the Spirit will certainly not be needed at that time, but now we have sickness, and we have disbelief, and we see with dark colored glass and barely hear. Now the gifts are so important. Jesus said they would do greater things than Him in the last days.

If someone is sick, doesn't a loving person want them healed? So to talk about love and not believe a loving God wants them healed is just extremely sad. God is love and He wants people healed, but Jesus told the people in His home town that He (God) couldn't do miracles there because of their disbelief.

I personally have had my knee instantly healed but the Lord, and a growth instantly removed by the Lord, and cold healed in ten minutes, a fever gone instantly, and more. And I have prayed for people and seen God heal a heart problem so that they didn' have to go through a planned surgery the next day. I have seen carpel tunnel sydrome healed instantly, a back healed instantly, head and shoulder pain instantly, a swollen knee go down under my hand, a stomach healed instantly, a shoulder healed instantly, a swollen wrist return to normal in less than an hour, a foot healed instantly, and a found out that a lady a friend and myself were praying for because she was in the hospital and they felt she was going to die did die and Jesus appeared to her and her heart started beating again and she was perfectly well the next day.

And I know people whose testimonies about what Jesus has done for them and around them are far more incredible than those I gave quickly above.

If you love people you will pray for them!!!!!!

And if you love people you will desire the gifts because the gifts of the Spirit help you help people!!!!

And if you love God you will do what He says!!!

1 Cor 14:1 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts...

So are we going to do what God says?

Are we going to desire the spiritual gifts???

Not even the gift of healing and miracles so that you might be able to help someone???

It almost makes me sick when I hear someone try to tell me how much love they have, so they don't need the gifts. People if you have so much love, you will want to help the people, so you will want the spiritual gifts in order to help them.

God reproves those He loves, so don't think my reproof is a sign that I don't love, even the one posting above.

Please desire the gifts so that you might help others. Do it because you love them!!!

Miracles destroy our freedom to choose !

If we would see miracles all the time around us we would loose our choice not to believe in God, because we would have NO CHOICE, we would be FORCED TO BELIEVE.

Miracles were given for the SHORT PERIOD to help grow earlier Church.... To this day there here NO LONGER... THEY ARE GONE:

8 The love doth never fail; and whether [there be] prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless;
(1Co.13:8)

prophecies, they shall become useless;

tongues, they shall cease;

Well this already happened. So no more more miracles ... sorry..

 

[whatfor]

I agree with K2K , very sad .

When you see miracles you might believe.

 

[timur123456789]

I agree with K2K , very sad .

When you see miracles you might believe.

OR you would be comeplled to believe by BRUTE FORCE.

God want us to have freedom of choice.

 

[jiminpa]

OR you would be comeplled to believe by BRUTE FORCE.

God want us to have freedom of choice.

Really? how did that work out for Jesus? He showed the pharisees every miracle expected of the Messiah, and yet....

 

[Frogster]

I see it as a "weakness" like a child who is reaching out to his Father. That's a good weakness. I see Paul and Silas doing this.



These are the rare exceptions. God's been known to open up a meeting by doing a healing or miracle from someone right out of the blue. It's like someone bidding at an auction and after the tiniest delay after a bid slamming the hammer down and saying "Sold!" just to get everyone on board and their attention picqued.

Still for all thee reasonings, if you get into the environment where God manifests, and the anointing is present, you can join your personal faith to it and receive, and this is what we're seeking here isn't it?

The Thomas incident is not rare, we all were dead, in a bad position in life, in all our unbelief, then the Spirit came that saved, so why do we now have to work to earn, wondering all the time if we are in a good position?

The Galatians had the Spirit and miracles, (the anointing) in chapter 3, and Paul stressed that they did not get it by works, and they don't maintian it by works, self effort.

Then we have the carnal Corinthians, the cream of the carnal crop, they had gifts funtioning in their bad position also.

 

[Frogster]

Miracles destroy our freedom to choose !

If we would see miracles all the time around us we would loose our choice not to believe in God, because we would have NO CHOICE, we would be FORCED TO BELIEVE.

Miracles were given for the SHORT PERIOD to help grow earlier Church.... To this day there here NO LONGER... THEY ARE GONE:

8 The love doth never fail; and whether [there be] prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless;
(1Co.13:8)

prophecies, they shall become useless;

tongues, they shall cease;

Well this already happened. So no more more miracles ... sorry..

u quote 1 cor 13..has knowledge ceased?


8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.

Besides, if u understood the mirror definition from Paul in 13, u would know why gifts had not ceased.


Are gifts a part of our Abrahamic inheritance? The promise of the Spirit in 3:14 that of Pentecost, same gifts as 3:5 of Galatians. Are we not in the promise anymore, how do you extract the gifts, from our Abrahamic inheritance?

 

[Frogster]

Miracles destroy our freedom to choose !

If we would see miracles all the time around us we would loose our choice not to believe in God, because we would have NO CHOICE, we would be FORCED TO BELIEVE.

Miracles were given for the SHORT PERIOD to help grow earlier Church.... To this day there here NO LONGER... THEY ARE GONE:

8 The love doth never fail; and whether [there be] prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless;
(1Co.13:8)

prophecies, they shall become useless;

tongues, they shall cease;

Well this already happened. So no more more miracles ... sorry..

Does it say everyone, and does it say for your children, indicating a multigenerational promise? The promise, again, with Abraham, whom Peter spoke of in Chapter 3, the promise that Paul spoke of in Galatians 3:14.


Acts 2:39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

 

[K2K]

Miracles destroy our freedom to choose !

If we would see miracles all the time around us we would loose our choice not to believe in God, because we would have NO CHOICE, we would be FORCED TO BELIEVE.

Miracles were given for the SHORT PERIOD to help grow earlier Church.... To this day there here NO LONGER... THEY ARE GONE:

8 The love doth never fail; and whether [there be] prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless;
(1Co.13:8)

prophecies, they shall become useless;

tongues, they shall cease;

Well this already happened. So no more more miracles ... sorry..

Miracles- and I mean miracles - happen in my life on a regular bases because God is in my life.!!

So telling me miracles are no more is like saying the sun doesn't shine.

Of course if the Son doesn't shine in someone's elses life, then perhaps they can't understand.

How sad is that? They are living in darkeness!!

 

[JimB]

Miracles- and I mean miracles - happen in my life on a regular bases because God is in my life.!!

*****

I guess so. When you think about it, everything is a miracle. I mean, EVERYTHING.

 

[K2K]

I guess so. When you think about it, everything is a miracle. I mean, EVERYTHING.

Well - God created everything, and God does miracles, and certainly there are little incredible things that God does and great incredible things that God does, but when we talk miracles in general we are talking about great incredible things in which can not be explained except that God did them

Quick healings that are not seen naturally are certainly one of these things we call miracles. Like when I had a bad knee from surfing about 20 years ago, and agrevated from referreeing soccer games, and God healed it. He My Lord told me to go to a Christian healing ministry on a particular night. They prayed for it, instantly my knee got hot and the knee was healed and has not been bad since. That is a miracle by any standard.

And I see these type of miracles regularly. I worked in a healing ministry for a while not long ago. Every week people came in, and every week people were healed. Not every person got instantly healed when prayed for, but maybe half did. And heart desease, cancer, grown out limbs, and things like that were part of what we saw. And there are thousands of those Christian healing ministries around.

So while I kind of agree that everything is a miracle in a since, I don't want to trivialize the word miracle by applying it to everything. Otherwise it will just encourage someone that does not believe in God and the fact that He is still doing miracles in the greatest since of the word, to not believe and say silly things like God doesn't do miracle today.

God is doing miracles and in the most fantastic since of the word miracle. And the Scriptures have much to say about scoffers!!

 

[K2K]

OR you would be comeplled to believe by BRUTE FORCE.

God want us to have freedom of choice.

Indeed -- God gives you a choice to believe!!

So if a person says they don't believe in miracles today, they won't get one!!

Jesus (the One through whom all things were created) said that He could not do great miracles in Nazareth because of their lack of faith. That is because God will not force a miracle upon you. You have a choice to reject Jesus Christ and the power of God that He brings.

So if you choose not to believe in miracles, you have choosen not to believe in Jesus Christ!!! If you choose to believe in Jesus Christ He will do miracles in and around your life because He love you, and if He love you won't He help you.

He also is wise, so help might not always be what you think it should be. Perhaps He has a reason for not doing miracles in and around you. There might be a number of reasons, but one might be because you have choosen to not believe period!!

There are churches like the city of Nazareth. Jesus seems to grow up in people there, but when He shows up ready to heal the people, He can't because of their lack of faith, and then they seek to kill Him by throwing Him off a cliff (spiritually speaking). You had better make sure you are not living in that city.

 

[Tigger45]

Jesus (the One through whom all things were created) said that He could not do great miracles in Nazareth because of their lack of faith

 

[JimB]

Indeed -- God gives you a choice to believe!!

So if a person says they don't believe in miracles today, they won't get one!!

*****

Have you thought this statement through? Can your prove it?

 

[Strong in Him]

What do you think of this quote from author H. Jackson Brown, Jr. (Life's Little Instruction Book):

“Believe in miracles but don’t depend on them.”​

Laurence J. Peter (The Peter Principle) took a different view. He said,

“Don’t believe in miracles, depend on them.”​

IYO, which is right?

Both, in a way.

The biggest miracles by far are:
a)that God loves me.
b) that God gave his Son to die for my sin
c) that he was raised from the dead
d) that he loves ME!
e) that he wants me to have his Holy Spirit AND the privilege of working in partnership with him
f) did I mention that God loves me?

These are the miracles that I depend on - utterly.

Another miracle that I believe in, depend on and look for is the fact that God loves other people in the same way, and he wants them to KNOW that love, his peace, joy and his Son too.

He also healed me of M.E, which was and is fantastic. I believed that he would one day, but had stopped looking or searching for it.

But I know that I have, in the past, looked for big miracles and dramatic events to prove that God loves me - which is the wrong way round. I have had to learn not to hope for miracles, or trust in dramatic events, or intense feelings to measure God's love for me of assure me of his prescence. So in that sense, I would not depend on miracles.

 

[whatfor]

Have you thought this statement through? Can your prove it?

I have heard of people going to healing meetings to prove God does not heal and the person a fake, only to find themselves healed .
They did not believe in miracles but got one anyway.

 

[whatfor]

OR you would be comeplled to believe by BRUTE FORCE.

God want us to have freedom of choice.

Sorry if I seemed to be pushing my view on you.

I guess I base my view on the evidence Of what I have seen, it is hard to dismiss something you have witnessed.

 

[Alive_Again]

Miracles were given for the SHORT PERIOD to help grow earlier Church.... To this day there here NO LONGER... THEY ARE GONE:

I think it may be time to find a new church. Jesus is the same, yesterday, today, and forever.

If a day is as a thousand years, 2,000 years ago was the day before yesterday in God's sight. God still does the miracles, but He only confirms the Word of God (His version, not a dead churches). If someone preaches it like it was given and hearts are right and faith is present, miracles happen! They happen here and they happen in abundance in other countries.

8 The love doth never fail; and whether [there be] prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless;
(1Co.13:8)

Prophecies haven't become useless. I received one 2 days ago that really built me up. I've been a part of over a hundred in the last 2 years. I wouldn't be where I am today without them. If prophecy isn't happening in your church, ask God to send you where it is happening.

prophecies, they shall become useless;

tongues, they shall cease;

Tongues hasn't ceased yet. I prayed this morning in tongues. It usually happens when I don't think about it. I just find myself doing it. It edifies me and makes me sensitive to the things of God.

I want to encourage you that their is another dimension in Christianity that awaits you. It's very exciting and when you just enter in things are VERY intense. I often wish I could go back for the freshness of it. The zeal!

 

[jiminpa]

prophecies, they shall become useless;

tongues, they shall cease;

Well this already happened. So no more more miracles ... sorry..

On top of your theology being in direct conflict with scripture, sowing your unbelief is also a violation of the rules of this forum.

Spirit-filled / Charismatic Statement of Faith The Spirit-filled / Charismatic Community- a forum for all Spirit-filled / Charismatic members to discuss and fellowship.

A few things to know about us:

• Spirit-Filled, Pentecostal and/or Charismatic believers can be from any denomination.
• They are those who believe that all the various spiritual gifts (or charisms) listed in the New Testament (including but not limited to the manifestations gifts found in I Corinthians 12:8-10) are active in the Church today and desirable in the life of the individual believer, for the edification of the Body of Christ.
• It is not required that the individual exercises/exhibits any specific spiritual gift(s).

House Rules-
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.