I agree. The person seeking to find the truth will somewhere, somehow also be exposed to hearing. They will hear the word of God. ..Extirpated Wildlife said:
--------------------
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I agree. The person seeking to find the truth will somewhere, somehow also be exposed to hearing. They will hear the word of God. ..Extirpated Wildlife said:Yes. I agree. But you can't believe in Jesus without a certain amount of information. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
You are still tied to a 20th century mindset that things that are factual are more true than things that are not. That is simply not how people have understood the world for most of history.Extirpated Wildlife said:Truthful to what extreme of liberalism?
Adam does exist, in all of us. He represents all of mankind.Adam didn't exist?
His story explains how we all separate ourselves from God.Sin is a natural state and that the sinning of Adam is just our way of allegorical way of explaining things to why bad things happen?
-Mercury- said:Another comment on this:
Do you mean like how John recorded in Revelation what he was shown by Christ? Do you think Revelation is also entirely literal with no symbolism? If not, I don't think you're being consistent.
TheBeginningSeasons said:Exactly, the HOLY SPIRIT is what led the authors of the Bible to write and record what they did...if not then it would just be a bunch of "stories" that people through together and had no real basis on what they kept a record of. Now lets examine something else here, if you believe in "the truth" but it not being fact from what the Bible says....how can you in fact believe at all? You think the stories are true but not fact, they are just made up? When studing the Bible you should pray before hand to ask God to guide you in what speaks to you correct? So why should it be different for believing what the truth is? THE truth of the Bible is the FACT! You can't say "oh I believe Christ was the savior and God can do that, but not that He made us instantly just from Speaking it into exisitance." Does that make sense? I am not attacking anyone, and I am not saying you have to believe as I do. Believing is believing, which means you believe what the Bible says in black and white. IF you want to make up things and take it out of context then that is your own decision. By no means and I trying to offend, I am just trying to shed light for people who have been mislead by the enemy into their trap.
chaoschristian said:Believing is indeed believing. I believe in God the Father and Creator, Jesus Christ the Son and Resurrected Saviour, and the Holy Ghost, the indwelling spirit of God found in all men.
I do not believe in the Bible, for my faith is reserved for God alone.
I have a contention with what you say in the latter half of your statement (see bold.)
Remeber that Christians existed for 60 some years before the first gospel was ever written down, and Christianity existed for some three hundred years before the first Bible was compiled under the auspices of Emperor Constantine. Jesus, our Lord, our Saviour, our King didn't see fit to write down a single word!
I can have faith in God and not believe in what the Bible says in black and white. In fact I think that all Christians need to have some amount of scepticism regarding the Bible. That doesn't mean that I don't believe that the Bible reveals the Divine Will and Truth of God, quite the opposite. What it does mean is that when I use the Bible, I know that getting to that Truth is going to take some work. Anything worth doing is going to take work.
My personal approach is to balance reliance on scripture and reliance on science through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I think that when we employ all of the tools that God gave us that we arrive at a more complete understanding of God's Creation and His intention for us in it.
Now regarding your last statement, I understand your good intentions, but all that I see is a politely worded version of the "You're-Not-A-Real-Christian" Hammer (TM). Maybe I'm putting too fine a point on it, and if so then I apologize. But from where I'm sitting you just tipped your hand.
The stories are "made up" to carry the messages they carry, just as the parables of the N.T. are. The messages of Genesis are about God creating everything through the Word. About our place as stewards of creation and our relationship to God. About how we separate ourselves from God through sin. And so forth. The story is a device to carry that truth, because that is how ancient people taught and preserved the values they held to be important - in stories. Although the events in the stories never took place in the way described, the message is far more true than a historically accurate but irrelevent document could ever hope to be.TheBeginningSeasons said:Now lets examine something else here, if you believe in "the truth" but it not being fact from what the Bible says....how can you in fact believe at all? You think the stories are true but not fact, they are just made up?
He did make us by speaking it into existance. But over billions of years using the processes that science discovered, not "poof" in 6 days.When studing the Bible you should pray before hand to ask God to guide you in what speaks to you correct? So why should it be different for believing what the truth is? THE truth of the Bible is the FACT! You can't say "oh I believe Christ was the savior and God can do that, but not that He made us instantly just from Speaking it into exisitance."
If you take what the bible says in black and white, you miss most of the interesting bits.Believing is believing, which means you believe what the Bible says in black and white.
On the contrary, you are the one taking it out of the ancient context and understanding of truth in which it is written and reading it with a 20th century mindset.IF you want to make up things and take it out of context then that is your own decision.
Stacey said:Well said. You can't pick and choose what you want to believe in the bible... It's all or nothing!
"Real" according to what criteria? the criteria of 19th Century Western positivist scientism that says that only scientifically verifiable facts are "real"? or the criteria of the rest of the world that says that symbolic, spiritual truth is every bit as real as "facts?"Maybe I am wrong, but it seems you are saying you don't believe the first couple of chapters as real.
Stacey said:Well said. You can't pick and choose what you want to believe in the bible... It's all or nothing!
Stacey said:Well said. You can't pick and choose what you want to believe in the bible... It's all or nothing!
TheBeginningSeasons said:Thank you, now for people who think science is needed to prove things and the Bible is apparently a bunch of stories put together for people to interput themselves. In Isaiah 45:11-12 "Do you question what I do? Do you give me orders about teh work of my hands? I am the one who made the earth and created people to live on it. WIth my hands I stretched out the heavens. All the millions of stars are at my command." Isn't that proof enough? Here Jesus quoted Isaiah, Mark 7:6 "You hypocrites! Isaiah was prophesying about you when he said, 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far away. Their worship is a farce, for they replace God's commands with their own man-made teachings'" Doesn't that speak of what you are talking about here? Jesus taught from the old Scriptures as if they were THE TRUTH, now I know you all believe in Jesus. I am in no way coming after anyone here, or trying to be rude or mean. Just showing the truth. Isn't Jesus the one who told us that Moses wrote Genesis? Isn't Jesus the one who taught in the temple from the first Scriptures knowing it was His Fathers truth, love, and work that had made them?
One more question...if the Bible isn't true how can you account for all of the prophets who described the arrival of the Messiah? If it isn't true, then wouldn't that discredit Jesus all together? Wouldn't it? Just a question. And faith is believing in God, that what He has given us to lead our lives upon is His true and holy word.
Isaiah 45:1-13 (KJV no less!) said:1Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
2I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
4For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
5I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
8Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
9Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
10Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
11Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
12I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. 13I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
You know there is very little difference between threatening to whip out the Bible Hammer and actually doing so. Don't be milquetoast. If you have something to say, say it. Do not hide behind politeness.now I know you all believe in Jesus. I am in no way coming after anyone here, or trying to be rude or mean. Just showing the truth.
One more question...if the Bible isn't true how can you account for all of the prophets who described the arrival of the Messiah? If it isn't true, then wouldn't that discredit Jesus all together? Wouldn't it? Just a question. And faith is believing in God, that what He has given us to lead our lives upon is His true and holy word.
TheBeginningSeasons said:One more question...if the Bible isn't true :
I couldn't agree more!chaoschristian said:Please realize that to me there is a significant difference between believing in the revealed truth of the Bible and believing in the literal delivery of the Bible. Whether or not you read the Bible literally, I think it has but one Will and one Truth.
What this leaves out of the picture is man and this is most certainly a good thing to leave out.chaoschristian said:However, if you choose to read the Bible as literal truth, then I think you are not allowing any room for science and any experiential learning that takes place from being in relationship with Creation. To me that leaves out too much of the picture.
Out of curiosity, just where do you establish or come up with the idea that we are co-creators with God?chaoschristian said:However, we do need to science to help us experience and reveal the wonders of God's on-going miracle and to join Him as co-creators in it. We are afterall charged with beings its stewards. What is rational in denying ourselves the best possible tools for being the best possible stewards? Or do you not think that this job is so important?
Yelena said:If your a real christian and you read the bible you should know that god created the hevens and the earth Genesis 1:1
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?