Beliefs about the Afterlife

PaladinValer said:

I know mine does, using his own particular words.

I also know it is the historic Christian view, and that the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, and all the major Protestant Fathers were in pretty much agreement on the issue. John Calvin in particular was very keen on it, and the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox have never once questioned it.

A reading Anglican theologian, probably THE LEADING Anglican theologian of our time...and one of the greatest theologians period of our time...and Biblical experts of our time, would also appear to agree: the former Bishop of Durham, +N.T. Wright (who also just happens to be a real Open Evangelical).




Even the language used to describe Purgatory by the hierarchs, even popes, in that particular church which holds to it has changed radically since the days of Trent to be very similar, arguably reconcilable to what I have described.

I hope this answers your question, and I'd like to add that I personally appreciate a true and honest question being asked. A pity it isn't done as often here on CF; it is refreshing.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much for both your answer and for introducing me to the videos of N.T Wright. Both greatly helped increase my understanding.

AlexLL said:

Thank you very much for both your answer and for introducing me to the videos of N.T Wright. Both greatly helped increase my understanding.

Click to expand...

If you want to extend things further, read his Surprised by Hope.

RileyG said:

Ok. Thanks.

So, do the [Anglicans] the departed people are conscious of anything? Or is there "Soul sleep" until the resurrection?

Click to expand...

Other than for the matter of Purgatory, Anglicans believe basically the same as Roman Catholics about death, the afterlife, the resurrection of the dead, and a final judgment.

PaladinValer said:

The fact that Jesus speaks of wailing and gnashing of teeth, and the number of unrepentant people who visibly die forsaking Christ, is testament that there will be those who will experience hell.

Click to expand...

Jesus frequently speaks in parable, metaphore, and hyperbole.

Can God surprise us? Yes. However, in actuality, Christianity has been pretty clear historically. Universalism was condemned in Ecumenical Council, so it is heretical.

Click to expand...

Certain teachings of Origin were condemned, not universalism. The emperor Justinian, being the control-freak he was, loathed the idea of apocatastasis, or universal reconciliation, but to my knowledge the 5th Ecumenical Council only condemned certain teachings of Origin of Alexandria (not all of his teachings altogether).

FireDragon76 said:

Jesus frequently speaks in parable, metaphore, and hyperbole.

Click to expand...

Non-Argument.

Certain teachings of Origin were condemned, not universalism.

Click to expand...

That is not correct. The 15th and Last Anathema of Origen's "teachings" reads as follows:

"If anyone shall say that the life of the spirits (νοῶ&#957 shall be like to the life which was in the beginning while as yet the spirits had not come down or fallen, so that the end and the beginning shall be alike, and that the end shall be the true measure of the beginning: let him be anathema."

Since Origen "teachings" included the belief of the preexistence of souls (see the 1st Anathema), it is logical to conclude that Universalism is being condemned.

NPNF2-14. The Seven Ecumenical Councils - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

The emperor Justinian, being the control-freak he was, loathed the idea of apocatastasis, or universal reconciliation, but to my knowledge the 5th Ecumenical Council only condemned certain teachings of Origin of Alexandria (not all of his teachings altogether).

Click to expand...

All Emperor Justinian did was describe the same Anathema in his own words.

NPNF2-14. The Seven Ecumenical Councils - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Universalism was condemned in Ecumenical Council. It is considered heretical. The hope that God will have mercy was not, but the definite idea that God will have said mercy was (and still is).

RileyG said:

So do the dead experience anything in sheol? Isn't Sheol just a shadowy place of the dead? No one is experiencing heaven or hell in Anglican theology- yet? Correct?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Do the dead experience anything in sheol? Please read my previous posts, as they right from the beginning discuss this.

Is sheol just a shadowy place of the dead? No. Christ defeated death by death and God is omnipresent, which is a part of standard orthodoxy. That would include sheol.

The souls that make up a person experience a foretaste of heaven or hell in sheol, called hades in the Greek. Why only a foretaste? Because they aren't a person but only a portion. A person is both immaterial and material; both physical and spiritual. A person isn't just a soul that happens to have a body or just a body that has a soul but both body and soul, both of equal vital importance. Without the body, a soul is incomplete, and the same would be true of a body without a soul.

When we die biologically, the body returns to the dust and the soul goes and dwells in sheol/hades. The soul is not cutoff from God and remains in the Communion of all Saints. The soul, being immaterial, is infinitely active, and has one activity: prayer; praying for the Resurrection, praying for the Church, and praying for itself. This is the state of all when we die until Jesus comes again. Then all souls shall vacate sheol/hades, which is obliterated, and rejoin their bodies, reconstituted, healed, perfected, and transfigured. We call this the Resurrection of the Dead. Then all the formerly dead and the still living shall be Judged by Christ, and those found by Him to do so shall experience heaven and those found by him to do so shall experience hell.

Recent writings by hierarchs in your own church, including the current and the two prior popes, have made a rather noticeable shift in the language describing "Purgatory", making it rather reconcilable to the above and much less like the medieval understanding, which we Anglicans formally reject.