Belief is a funny thing

[Kris10leigh]

I have a basic question that I think everyone should own up to at one point or another. Do you believe in what you believe because you believe it? Or do you believe what you believe because it's safe?

My brother and I were having a heart to heart and he's worried about my salvation. I can respect that. His point of view was that basically Jesus is a security blanket. Believe in him and have salvation. That's well and good if you actually do believe in him. But if someone agreed to be a Christian in name only, then it becomes more like superstition.

Sometimes it's hard to stand up for what you believe, no matter what it is.

 

[bsd31]

I have a basic question that I think everyone should own up to at one point or another. Do you believe in what you believe because you believe it? Or do you believe what you believe because it's safe?

My brother and I were having a heart to heart and he's worried about my salvation. I can respect that. His point of view was that basically Jesus is a security blanket. Believe in him and have salvation. That's well and good if you actually do believe in him. But if someone agreed to be a Christian in name only, then it becomes more like superstition.

Sometimes it's hard to stand up for what you believe, no matter what it is.

I'll use the word "you", but I mean it in a generic sense, not speaking to you directly.

I don't believe salvation works like your brother does. Jesus Christ isn't a decision that you make to keep you safe like a seat belt or a life jacket. You don't take Him off and put Him back on whenever you feel threatened or are having questions about your own mortality. If you don't have a relationship with Him, a continual and growing relationship then you have nothing and I'd go so far as to say you are not saved.

As for me I try to cultivate a daily relationship with God. I try to center my life around Him and not "squeeze" Him in whenever I feel like it. If you don't feel a need to do that then I doubt there is a relationship. I mean would you ignore your spouse or best friend like that and only talk to them when you needed something? I believe because I've met Him on numerous occasions not because I've read about it in a book or was told to have relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

[DeanM]

Some people believe that Jesus is God and some don't.

The fact is, either He is or he isn't . . .

But if you believe in God, and Jesus is God, you believe in Jesus by default.

If you believe in God and Jesus isn't God, you are safe to have believed in God.

I could never understand why anyone would say that you need to believe in Jesus if you believe in God. I think they do it to make themselves feel more correct in some way.

A better question might be, if Jesus is God, and I believe in God, how can you say I can't be saved for not believing in Jesus?

It's kind of like saying I can't drive a car because I don't believe in seatbelts.

 

[Avatar]

I have a basic question that I think everyone should own up to at one point or another. Do you believe in what you believe because you believe it? Or do you believe what you believe because it's safe?

I can assure that it's the former rather than the latter in my case. What I believe terrifies me and is in no way safe.

I was an atheist from my mid teens to about 30. Had a job where I was completely alone and had nothing to do but think for many hours every day for many years. And I thought about the big questions. Where did it all come from, why are we here? Unanswerable questions, right? And most dismiss them as such. But I've got an OCD thing when it comes to questions I can't answer. I keep going back to them. Over and over. Like how your tongue can't stop touching a bit lip.

And that led to a series a small ephanies, with months interspersed between. At the end a giant epiphany, and not good news. I know it all, God's nature, why we and the universe exist, what the outcome will be, even know why bad things happen to good people and what happens to us when we die.

Momentary euphoria at working it out was quickly replaced by horror at what it all meant.

I realized sometime later that Christianity was the best way to forestall the almost inevitable. I think Christ knew what I do and tried to fix this corner of existence while He was here.

 

[Kris10leigh]

Wow you guys are good. I am always so humbled when I visit here.

I have always held to the belief that every person must follow his heart. God knows what's in it. If we follow some path just because it's easier, I feel that's hypocritical. Only God knows the answer and He made us to seek.

 

[alfrodull]

Some people believe that Jesus is God and some don't.

The fact is, either He is or he isn't . . .

But if you believe in God, and Jesus is God, you believe in Jesus by default.

If you believe in God and Jesus isn't God, you are safe to have believed in God.

I could never understand why anyone would say that you need to believe in Jesus if you believe in God. I think they do it to make themselves feel more correct in some way.

A better question might be, if Jesus is God, and I believe in God, how can you say I can't be saved for not believing in Jesus?

It's kind of like saying I can't drive a car because I don't believe in seatbelts.

I would say that Jesus exemplifies the nature of God...A loving God who is willing to sacrifice that which is most dear to him for the sake of his creation. Those who do not believe in Jesus may be way off as far as the aspects of God they worship and thus making their spiritual lives less fulfilling.

I don't believe that you necessarily have to believe in Jesus to be "saved", but, to tie in with the OP, I believe that a genuine search for truth is necessary. I try to always be questioning, although I admit I find it easy to fall prey to what I WANT to believe or feel safe believing.

 

[Kris10leigh]

Those who do not believe in Jesus may be way off as far as the aspects of God they worship and thus making their spiritual lives less fulfilling.

I like the word may here. I could turn it around. Those who do believe in Jesus may be way off... We don't know. Only God knows for certain, and the rest is up to us to decipher and believe.

And for what it's worth, I believe much of what Jesus taught. I believe he challenged the Jewish religious leaders of his day for the corrupt behavior and I believe he showed us who God was as a loving God. My spiritual life is more fulfilling because I do have a belief in the man that was Jesus. But then, that's why I still visit this lovely liberal forum. I don't quite fit any one mold.

 

[Supernaut]

What I believed in before was "safe" yet full to the brim with fear. The path I have explored now, is much more fullfilling and a lot less fearful. I simply went from fundie to esoteric liberal (kinda extreme). I do not believe that Jesus is the "only" way but one of many. God has more than just one Name. God has been called many Names throughout the history of mankind, some that transcend gender and physical appearance (or lack thereof).

 

[Kris10leigh]

Esoteric liberal? As in one of the few? I've not heard this term before.

 

[DeanM]

I would say that Jesus exemplifies the nature of God...A loving God who is willing to sacrifice that which is most dear to him for the sake of his creation. Those who do not believe in Jesus may be way off as far as the aspects of God they worship and thus making their spiritual lives less fulfilling.

I agree with you. I personally believe Jesus is God. However, there are plenty of folks who also believe Jesus is God who have some pretty whacked-out beliefs as well.

I may be one of them.

But it's pretty obvious to me that belief in the divinity of Jesus doesn't make anyone's faith correct.

I like the word may here. I could turn it around. Those who do believe in Jesus may be way off... We don't know. Only God knows for certain, and the rest is up to us to decipher and believe.

And for what it's worth, I believe much of what Jesus taught. I believe he challenged the Jewish religious leaders of his day for the corrupt behavior and I believe he showed us who God was as a loving God. My spiritual life is more fulfilling because I do have a belief in the man that was Jesus. But then, that's why I still visit this lovely liberal forum. I don't quite fit any one mold.

Welcome to the island of misfit toys.

I don't think any of us fit into any molds here.

It's actually pretty funny how different God makes us. Perhaps He's making a point.

 

[b.hopeful]

The theory that starts with a Uni, has a middle sound that rhymes with hearse and puts an ism on the end......the theory that shall not be named on CF.....that is a deeply held belief of mine and brings no fear. So my beliefs, my relationship with God is not rooted in any fear at all...not for myself or humanity.

 

[SmileAndAHandshake]

Wow you guys are good. I am always so humbled when I visit here.

I have always held to the belief that every person must follow his heart. God knows what's in it. If we follow some path just because it's easier, I feel that's hypocritical. Only God knows the answer and He made us to seek.

I hold the same belief as well. You're doing just fine if you're following your heart. God not only knows what's in it, but God is in it

We're all unique. For a perfect God to create a people who are unique and individual with free will, and expect them all to follow the exact same path or else be damned for eternity... does that sound like a perfect Creator to you?

Doesn't to me, that's for sure. God understands our minds and hearts better than anyone. What, people don't think He knows we're going to be different? Lead different paths? Live different lives? Relate to Him in completely unique ways? Struggle with faith, life, the universe, and everything?

He knows. And He's with us every step of the way.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Yes, one must go with what one believes is the truth. Not to go with the truth as you see it isn't honest. God doesn't like dishonesty.

This is some of what Izzy believes is the truth:

Simply believing Jesus is God isn't enough, because the demons believe that too, and tremble. Nor is also believing Jesus rose from the dead sufficient. The demons believe that too, but it doesn't save them. They've chosen a different master.

We also need to follow Jesus, not just as a decision, but as a way of life. That doesn't mean following a list of rules; Jesus isn't a list of rules, but our master. Not in the sense of a slave master, but of a martial arts master, so a sensei and student relationship. Or rabbi and disciple if you prefer. He wants to teach us to be more like Him.

That doesn't mean we're going to be perfect students. We might be the class bumblers and clowns, but we've got to be in the class. So long as the master recognizes us as one of His, we'll be good. And He will; He's not going to kick anyone out who wants to be in. It's not achievement-based, but a free gift, so even the worst students won't be kicked out. Those who continually miss the mark will be forgiven. So will those who struggle with doubts on an ongoing basis. But persist, stay in the class, listen to the master and try to learn the lessons.

Will all eventually be saved? I can't answer that one. I'd like to think so. God wants to save all that He can, but we can choose to reject Him, else our God-given free will is meaningless, an illusion. Following Jesus is the Way we're called to. Might it be that, over the span of eternity, all souls who've rejected God could be given another chance, and another and another, until they eventually decide to accept Him? God is infinitely merciful, so I couldn't rule it out. But even so, it'd be a hard, hard road, going through perhaps eons without Him before coming to Him. Following Jesus now is what He wants us to do, and it's the right thing to do.

Another thought: I had considered Pascal's Wager to be unconvincing, an argument that didn't help me, and that I could dismiss outright. But as Peter Kreeft explains it, quoting Pascal extensively, it begins to seem compelling. I can no longer dismiss it. I think I'm going to have to read Pascal's Pensées for myself.

 

[Avatar]

The theory that starts with a Uni, has a middle sound that rhymes with hearse and puts an ism on the end......the theory that shall not be named on CF.....that is a deeply held belief of mine and brings no fear. So my beliefs, my relationship with God is not rooted in any fear at all...not for myself or humanity.

Interesting. Did we know one another at Ford's old site?

 

[KarinP]

For me Jesus shows me the way to live here on Earth. The rest I'm not sure about.

 

[Galatians513]

Do you believe in what you believe because you believe it? Or do you believe what you believe because it's safe?

Great question! I believe that God desires truth in our "inward parts" (Psalm 51:6), meaning that He wants me to "keep it real" with both Him and myself. I try to live my entire life that way, so I guess the answer to your question is that I believe what I believe because I'm convinced that it's true... Not that it's popular, or easy, or even simple to explain-- but my beliefs represent what I wholeheartedly feel is true.

 

[b.hopeful]

Interesting. Did we know one another at Ford's old site?

That's not a site I'm familiar with. This is only the 4th board I've actively posted at and the other 3 were parenting boards.

 

[Supernaut]

Esoteric liberal? As in one of the few? I've not heard this term before.

Esoteric Christian is more fitting. My apologies. Esoteric Christianity pretty lumps Chrsitianity with other mystery religions.

I am not as far into it as others. I do appreciate the deeper spiritual and meditational apsects.

Ultimately, I am a liberal Christian.

 

[Supernaut]

The theory that starts with a Uni, has a middle sound that rhymes with hearse and puts an ism on the end......the theory that shall not be named on CF.....that is a deeply held belief of mine and brings no fear. So my beliefs, my relationship with God is not rooted in any fear at all...not for myself or humanity.

You get an Amen for this one. Uni's rock!

 

[scraparcs]

I don't like what I believe. It's not safe. It's not comforting. It sure doesn't give me a warm fuzzy. So I can't really I say I believe as I do for its safety; rather, it's because it is the only thing I can believe.

I tend to see Christian in name only as more heritage and tradition than superstition. It's not a bad thing to embrace one's roots, even if one's belief doesn't always go along with one's religious heritage.