Being physical while engaged?

[Natalie+]

I am engaged and getting married in about a year. My fiance and I are physical with each other and I am not sure what to do... I used to feel bad when we got more physical but now I don't, but during church when they mention sin in the back of my mind I feel something saying "sin, like what you guys do". So I guess I feel guilty about it, but I don't actually feel bad like I used to or when I have sinned other ways in the past. I don't really know how I feel about it anymore I guess, but I know that is something I want to keep secret. If anyone knew, Christian or non-Christian, I would be so ashamed. And I know if I asked any other Christian they would be like "of course you shouldn't do that".

We tried to stop in the past and we haven't been able to actually keep that up (we'd always stop for a while, then end up doing it again). We haven't had actual sex, by the way, just other stuff with hands n such... But anyways it is a while till we get married, we cannot get married for a year because of financial reasons so that's why we don't get married sooner. Like I wanna stop but I don't think we can do it, cause I realize when we do it more often I cannot manage to pray at all... like it disconnects me from God. On the flip side, there's the part of me that feels dumb for this to be taboo now when in a while it will be necessary part of our relationship.

I'm not really sure what advice I'm asking for, I just feel like I need some help?... I guess if anyone has any advice for me in my situation or how they stopped doing that kind of stuff before they were married I would appreciate it :/ I'm pretty sure my man feels the same way but it seems pointless to keep trying and failing at this decision so often.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

When you you haven't had sex, but just with "hands and stuff" do you mean you've been involved in sexual acts with hands (like touching, mb....etc)? Because if so that is technically sex too.

Regardless, the devils good at tempting us to mess up before we marry. Maybe you should just avoid any contact that might even turn each other on. Even if it means no kissing, no hand holding...etc. For some just a hug can make them want to take it further. Maybe when you two are alone together find something else to do. Or if you feel the temptation is to strong, only do things that involve other people. Like if you want to go see a movie, have someone else there. Or do a "double date" where another couple comes with you. I can tell you I regret having sex before marriage. Thankfully when it came to my wife we never had sex or did anything outside of kissing and some light touches (hugs...etc) while dating/engaged. Granted she was in another country so we didn't have the temptation so far apart.

Also when the urge comes around and one thing leads to another make sure it doesn't get to that point. Because more often then not you get so caught up in the moment that you already are finished with "things" before you even had time to react. Thus after you feel horrible. Its easy to get carried away. Also try not to think about what happens when you marry, it could cause you to do something also. Focus on other things.

 

[BFine]

*You know what to do...flee youthful lusts...stop "flirting" with sexual temptation-- run!

Which means...
Stop putting yourself in situations
where you can mess around with each other.

This calls for action on your part and his...each of
you take responsibility for your own actions.

Practice self control.

Incorporate mature Christians into your lives,
date with purpose-- to honor God not flesh.

Stop playing "church"-- start being serious
about your faith walk(s) with God.

If either one of you isn't willing to his/her part...
then some serious thought should go into whether your engagement should continue.

It's easy to continue playing around sexually and
following your feelings etc... but you see, there's
no scripture that tells believers to follow their
feelings or their "hearts". There's plenty in the Bible
about following Jesus, following God's Word --
believing it, living it/upholding it etc.

You're in a Spiritual battle...so-
Put on the full armor of God
each day...bible study on that here:
http://www.freebiblestudyguides.org/bible-teachings/armor-of-god.htm

Too many are "falling" into sin...willingly...they offer
excuses for not getting married but yet they are willing to live together or engage in sexual activity
...living out this part of 2 Timothy 3:4....
>>holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power<<

You see, God is able to help His Children to make it through difficulties...no matter what troubles arise.
We need to trust God and live for Him instead of living life according to our "flesh".
We are to be Christ-like, not world-like.
We need to stop giving excuses and seek our Savior
for help to live this life according to biblical standards
not our own.

When I married in 2002, I'd been discharged from my job...and only had a few hundred dollars...the man I was going to marry sent me a few hundred dollars...I made wedding arrangements and we married, it costs us less than six hundred dollars.

[At the time, his own daughter had married and his
savings were very low...we had "desires" a raging...
so we got serious and got engaged and married within
3 months of meeting!
People said we were crazy!]


My dress came from the clearance rack at Dillard's and I rented his tux and got us a room and bought two hours at a B&B for our wedding service, I used lots of candles and wedding bows (the B&B had floral wallpaper and floral furnishings etc.)
I got a wedding cake from the grocery store's bakery.

My wedding bouquet was artificial -- nobody knew until I told them...it cost eight dollars! The guy at
Michael's did a beautiful job fashioning it like the
costly arrangement in the picture I showed him...
he even added a touch of essence of roses to the
bouquet...so it even smelled like real roses!
I still have it!

Instead of gifts, I asked family and friends to supply
food items and they were happy to do that.
My minister performed the ceremony, it was a
full Christian wedding (unity candle, blessing etc.)

We've been married 13 years...our anniversary is
Sept. 28th.

 

[paul1149]

I do know this. If you honor God, He will honor you. If you both honor marriage, when the going gets tough - and it will get tough sooner or later - you will still have the marriage to cling to as a separate entity. The thing you both sowed into back then. But if you don't have that to fall back on, all you will have is your feelings toward each other, and if they are at a low ebb you may begin to doubt either your partner's commitment or the rightness of your own commitment.

Maybe you can get married now, and have a big ceremony later on when you can afford it.

 

[QuietBeauty]

You are engaged which means you plan to be married some day, so really you shouldn't be doing those things. God made that special for marriage for a reason. However, We are all human and we sin but that doesn't excuse the situation. It is hard being around the one you love and not able to express it, But we have to remember that God is first before everything. Without Him, none of this wouldn't even be possible. Also, if you haven't had sex yet but your still doing other things that is just going to tempt you even more and you will eventually end up having sex. So you really should stop before things get more out of control. It seems that since you've been doing this repeatedly for so long and you no longer feel conviction about it, That is a sign that your heart is now hardened towards God and that's a bit scary. That means it will be harder for you to hear His voice and it will be harder for you to have a good relationship with Him. I know it's hard (Especially if you are living together) but you guys are almost there and God is way more important. You really should make a commitment to get into the Word more and talk to God. The good thing about Jesus is that He has already forgiven your sin, But you have to take it. Which means you have to sincerely ask the Lord for forgiveness. Then after that you have to try your hardest to refrain from those activities. Again, It's not easy and God loves you no matter what but think about your future marriage and how much better your love life will be if you wait. P.S. - Don't try doing this in your own power, Lean on the Lord for strength.

 

[Natalie+]

We are not living together until we get married. The reason we don't get married now isn't because of wedding costs (we aren't hung up on a big wedding). It's because he is in school to become a math teacher, his last semester is loaded with classes and student teaching, which will mean he can only work part time or just a few hours a week. If we both worked full time we could afford to live on our own right now, and we would do it, but during that semester it would only be my income which wouldn't be enough to support us as the apartments etc. in our area are pretty expensive. That's why we are waiting till he graduates so he can be working full time again and be done with school expenses. Also if we got married earlier than that his parents would freak out (they are nazi's about him doing things "the right way" aka their way). His relationship to his parents isn't great, we don't want to do anything that would damage it.

 

[QuietBeauty]

Well it's great that you guys aren't living together at the moment because that would make it ten times harder. I'm sorry that you're going through this rough time. I understand what you said about his parents but if you feel like you honestly can't wait then you should just go to the courthouse and get married. Then explain to your family why you had to do that and still plan for a wedding. I have faith in you and I believe you can wait and wouldn't have to do that. Even if it comes to you having to spend less time with your future husband, if you truly value your relationship with God and want your future marriage to be blessed- You have to do something to avoid falling back into that sin. Remember God loves you and wants you to succeed in your marriage but you have to be willing to do the work for Him. It literally says in the bible to "flee" from temptation because God knows how hard it is for us and would rather for us literally run from it than to burn with passion.

Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 2 Timothy 2:22

But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 1 Corinthians 7:9

 

[Dave-W]

Tried to post something but the site crashed and it was ... Lost??

Anyway here goes again.

I am engaged and getting married in about a year.

CONGRATS!!!

My fiance and I are physical with each other and I am not sure what to do... I used to feel bad when we got more physical but now I don't, but during church when they mention sin in the back of my mind I feel something saying "sin, like what you guys do". So I guess I feel guilty about it, but I don't actually feel bad like I used to or when I have sinned other ways in the past. I don't really know how I feel about it anymore I guess, but I know that is something I want to keep secret. If anyone knew, Christian or non-Christian, I would be so ashamed. And I know if I asked any other Christian they would be like "of course you shouldn't do that".

The fact that you want to keep it a secret is very telling. The fact you feel less bad about it now means several you have done it several times since you started and your conscience is getting seared. Your brain is also getting re-wired. (it does that little by little with every sexual act) That is because of the intensly pleasurable sensations involved. God made us that way.

We tried to stop in the past and we haven't been able to actually keep that up (we'd always stop for a while, then end up doing it again). We haven't had actual sex, by the way, just other stuff with hands n such...

Yeah - that is way this stuff works. It is VERY DIFFICULT to take a relationship back to a pre-sexual state once that levy has been breached; and with each new line being crossed, it gets that much harder.

OF course God does give grace and strength, but not everyone is trained in how to access that grace.

You say you have not had actual sex yet (I assume you mean intercourse). Please understand that you are on a very slippery slope and if this goes on unabated, you WILL end up there. It is just basic GOD DESIGNED human nature.

We are not living together until we get married.

If you were, this would be impossible to stop.

The reason we don't get married now isn't because of wedding costs (we aren't hung up on a big wedding). It's because he is in school to become a math teacher, his last semester is loaded with classes and student teaching, which will mean he can only work part time or just a few hours a week.

The decision on how to proceed with this is yours to make, not ours. That said, I would like to offer another option:

Go to the county court house with a couple of friends and get married NOW. (small private ceremony) Have the "official" wedding next year where the various family members are involved. Then you can have all the sex you want LEGITIMATELY. What they do not know will not hurt them. And with being sexually satisfied (not fighting the urge constantly) he may be able to better concentrate on his final year of school.

 

[Goodbook]

Just want to ask is your fiance also a christian?

Are you not both putting Jesus first in your up coming marriage where he is the door? Put a lock on it and wait.

 

[Dave-W]

Just want to ask is your fiance also a christian?

Hmmm. Good point. I guess I just assumed he was. (can't do that)

 

[Natalie+]

Just want to ask is your fiance also a christian?

Are you not both putting Jesus first in your up coming marriage where he is the door? Put a lock on it and wait.

Yes he is Christian too. I grew up in church in my childhood, but stopped going until I was 19 and was saved. He became Christian at 20. I didn't regularly attend church until I met him, he has strengthened my relationship with God many ways before we started being physical, we didn't struggle with it till just before getting engaged. (We are both 24 now btw)

The decision on how to proceed with this is yours to make, not ours. That said, I would like to offer another option:

Go to the county court house with a couple of friends and get married NOW. (small private ceremony) Have the "official" wedding next year where the various family members are involved. Then you can have all the sex you want LEGITIMATELY. What they do not know will not hurt them. And with being sexually satisfied (not fighting the urge constantly) he may be able to better concentrate on his final year of school.

We've discussed getting married secretly but don't really feel comfortable doing that. If we told just my family or some friends they would ask us why we want to do it and then we'd have to explain... My mom would freak out if I told her we were struggling with wanting to be physical (even if we never did anything but kiss, she's weirdly over-conservative about that) and we wouldn't trust any of our friends to keep their mouths shut. If somehow his parents found out, his dad would probably disown him for not including them but if they knew they'd kick him out. With those kind of options we'd have to lie to someone which doesn't seem great for Christian character either so I dunno about that... But I might bring it up to him again to discuss.


I guess if you guys could just pray for us that'd be great. Seeing him tomorrow, don't know how I will bring it up... scared if I ask to stop and instead of agreeing he wants to keep it up, especially since agreeing to stop hasn't worked before. So I dunno

 

[paul1149]

if we got married earlier than that his parents would freak out (they are nazi's about him doing things "the right way" aka their way). His relationship to his parents isn't great, we don't want to do anything that would damage it.

It is very understandable that you don't want to upset the apple cart, but I would give this part of the equation serious thought. At some point the two of you have to make your own decisions. Will the parents' overbearingness actually end on the wedding day? Getting married is when you cut the cord in terms of obedience to parents. You will continue to honor, but you must make your own decisions. Now is the time to make sure that you are making the best decisions for yourselves and the future of your family, or you will carry the weight of the parents' undue influence with you into the future. And considering the issue at hand, you might be honoring the parents more than what God has written. I'm not trying to put a heavy load on you, but these choices do have important consequences, and I think you should talk them through together.

 

[Dave-W]

We've discussed getting married secretly but don't really feel comfortable doing that.

While I understand your concerns, I was praying over night on this; and this verse came to me several times:

1 Cor 7.9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
The KJV starts that verse out "if they cannot contain..."

Paul really gives no other option. He says nothing about increasing your self control in this area.
I really think this may be an area that you should " ... obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29b)

As paul1149 above said, part of getting married is leaving father and mother. You are engaged so that process should already be underway. You are certainly old enough.[/URL] You are 24. By that age, my wife already had 3 of our 4 children.

Out of curiosity, since you are both believers and in a church, are you undergoing pre-marital counseling?

===========================================
Ya know - I am just enough of a child of the '60s to say let your mom freak out a little. The idea that a 20-something year old person should not have a libido is beyond ridiculous.

But the question remains - who has to know if you get married early? Is someone going to do a search on public records?

I am sure there are ways of curbing your "appetite;" but I suspect you will NOT like them at all, and they may have certain long term negative consequences.

 

[aiki]

I notice you've made almost no response to BFine's post except to say you're not hung up on having an expensive wedding. That's good, but all the other things she wrote are exactly right and you ought to pay serious heed to them, too.

It doesn't matter one whit how you feel about your sexual sin with your fiancee; it is still sin. Are you a follower of Christ only when it suits you? Do you obey God only when it doesn't interfere with what you want to do? It sounds like it. But what sort of a Christian does that make you? Not a very good one, that's for sure! The answer to your problem isn't hard to figure out. It's your not wanting to do what you know you ought to do that's the problem. Give Romans 8:1-13 a read. In this passage the apostle Paul explains to believers how to bring their carnal, fleshly impulses under control.

Consider these verses, too:

2 Timothy 2:22
22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Romans 13:13-14
13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy.
14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

Being engaged is not a license to fornication. You aren't married yet so stop acting sexually as though you are. Put on Christ, center your life on him (Phil. 1:21), abide in him (Jn. 15:4, 5), surrender yourselves to him (Ga. 2:20; Ro. 12:1), and refuse to put yourselves in any situations that will give you further opportunity to continue to sin.

Oh, and one more thing: You've got some confession to make to God about your sin. This is the very first thing you need to do.

Isaiah 59:2
2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear.

1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Selah.

 

[Natalie+]

It is very understandable that you don't want to upset the apple cart, but I would give this part of the equation serious thought. At some point the two of you have to make your own decisions. Will the parents' overbearingness actually end on the wedding day? Getting married is when you cut the cord in terms of obedience to parents. You will continue to honor, but you must make your own decisions. Now is the time to make sure that you are making the best decisions for yourselves and the future of your family, or you will carry the weight of the parents' undue influence with you into the future. And considering the issue at hand, you might be honoring the parents more than what God has written. I'm not trying to put a heavy load on you, but these choices do have important consequences, and I think you should talk them through together.

While I understand your concerns, I was praying over night on this; and this verse came to me several times:

1 Cor 7.9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
The KJV starts that verse out "if they cannot contain..."

Paul really gives no other option. He says nothing about increasing your self control in this area.
I really think this may be an area that you should " ... obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29b)

As paul1149 above said, part of getting married is leaving father and mother. You are engaged so that process should already be underway. You are certainly old enough.[/URL] You are 24. By that age, my wife already had 3 of our 4 children.

Out of curiosity, since you are both believers and in a church, are you undergoing pre-marital counseling?

===========================================
Ya know - I am just enough of a child of the '60s to say let your mom freak out a little. The idea that a 20-something year old person should not have a libido is beyond ridiculous.

But the question remains - who has to know if you get married early? Is someone going to do a search on public records?

I am sure there are ways of curbing your "appetite;" but I suspect you will NOT like them at all, and they may have certain long term negative consequences.

Hmm I hadn't thought of how that might be honoring our parents more than God! Although, if we're talking about "cutting the cord", being married and living in their separate households means that we still would have to follow them and be under them. So getting married secretly isn't going to really accomplish separating from our parents' influence, it seems like it would make their influence more difficult to deal with.

We planned on doing pre-marital counseling either this summer or fall since the wedding's not close yet. Our church just started a bible study group thing for people in their 20's that is about dating and marriage and we are going to that.

I notice you've made almost no response to BFine's post except to say you're not hung up on having an expensive wedding. That's good, but all the other things she wrote are exactly right and you ought to pay serious heed to them, too.

It doesn't matter one whit how you feel about your sexual sin with your fiancee; it is still sin. Are you a follower of Christ only when it suits you? Do you obey God only when it doesn't interfere with what you want to do? It sounds like it. But what sort of a Christian does that make you? Not a very good one, that's for sure! The answer to your problem isn't hard to figure out. It's your not wanting to do what you know you ought to do that's the problem. Give Romans 8:1-13 a read. In this passage the apostle Paul explains to believers how to bring their carnal, fleshly impulses under control.

Consider these verses, too:

2 Timothy 2:22
22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Romans 13:13-14
13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy.
14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

Being engaged is not a license to fornication. You aren't married yet so stop acting sexually as though you are. Put on Christ, center your life on him (Phil. 1:21), abide in him (Jn. 15:4, 5), surrender yourselves to him (Ga. 2:20; Ro. 12:1), and refuse to put yourselves in any situations that will give you further opportunity to continue to sin.

Oh, and one more thing: You've got some confession to make to God about your sin. This is the very first thing you need to do.

Isaiah 59:2
2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear.

1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Selah.

I saw BFine's response as something to reflect on, not respond to. I wasn't ignoring it, thank you. I already know that, the problem is accomplishing it which we have failed to do. I have worked out other sins in the past that I held onto, I am not just picking and choosing how I want to follow God. I'm just not gotten to the part where I know exactly what to do/deal with this yet. They emphasized the low cost of their wedding, which is why I responded that wedding cost isn't what's holding us back. Like I've said it's about not being able to live on our own until he graduates end of this year. (We've considered living at one of our parents and paying them affordable rent than what apartments go for but his parents rule is "you get married, you get out of my house" and mine are trying to move halfway across the state.)

Anyways I brought it up when we were together today. We're gonna talk more on it later cause we had some responsibilities to take care of and didn't have long together, but the topic is at least up for discussion.

 

[Goodbook]

what's a year?
Jacob worked 7 years for Rachel. Rachel waited 7 years.
Not sure what the big deal is..you follow God or you fall into sin. God's commandments are not grievous. If you engaged its not like you going to date other people.

What you do is you ask Jesus to be at the centre of your engagement and you wait till the time is right to awaken love (see Song of Solomon). Just as trees fruits ripen, and there are seasons, wait until the appropriate time. If you pick too early, its not going to be good. You as the female just say its not good for a man to touch a woman! See corinthians.. Don't let him touch you...WAIT.

If you just can't wait then bring forward the marriage, as happened with one of my friends sons, he's getting married this feb instead of May. But he already has a house.
It looks like you don't.

So. Sorry, as 1 corinthians chapter 13 says, Love is patient.
If you lack patience, ask the holy spirit to cultivate this fruit in you.

If I were getting married if there were any impediments and my husband to be waited for the right time to marry me, after setting a date, that meant I could REALLY trust him.

You want your own home right, and to be truly married not to be living like heathens in someone else's place or renting a room like prostitutes do. ugh.

 

[Goodbook]

Also, the 7 years Jacob waited? They flew by for him because he was so in love.

 

[paul1149]

Hmm I hadn't thought of how that might be honoring our parents more than God! Although, if we're talking about "cutting the cord", being married and living in their separate households means that we still would have to follow them and be under them. So getting married secretly isn't going to really accomplish separating from our parents' influence, it seems like it would make their influence more difficult to deal with.

Thank you for your response, Natalie. Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting getting married secretly, but raising the possibility of doing so openly and quickly on the cheap, and then having the bigger celebration later on. I will confess to not understanding your financial situation and options very well. But whatever the best course forward proves to be, I hope you place your spiritual and moral wellbeing, and the need to lay a solid foundation for the marriage, ahead of all other considerations. Compromise now will have costs later on.

 

[drstevej]

I would encourage you to begin pre-marital counseling now. I say that as a pastor who has worked with hundreds of couples over the years. Making good decisions now is the best gift you can give each other and sorting through your situation with a wise, objective counselor may prevent some bad decisions that you will later regret.

I admire your desire to honor God in your relationship. You have my prayers for wisdom.

Chaplain Steve

 

[aiki]

I saw BFine's response as something to reflect on, not respond to. I wasn't ignoring it, thank you. I already know that, the problem is accomplishing it which we have failed to do. I have worked out other sins in the past that I held onto, I am not just picking and choosing how I want to follow God. I'm just not gotten to the part where I know exactly what to do/deal with this yet.

Hmmm...You sounded fairly ambivalent about your sexual sin, which is why I stated things as strongly as I did. You wrote:

I used to feel bad when we got more physical but now I don't, but during church when they mention sin in the back of my mind I feel something saying "sin, like what you guys do". So I guess I feel guilty about it, but I don't actually feel bad like I used to or when I have sinned other ways in the past.

Can you see why I'd want to emphasize that what you've been doing sexually with the man who is not yet your husband is sin? I wasn't just trying to be obnoxious but wanted to remind you of the seriousness of your moral compromise.

Like I've said it's about not being able to live on our own until he graduates end of this year.

No, this is an excuse you're using to remain in a situation that "makes provision for the flesh to fulfill its lusts." You don't have to be married and live on your own. Either go to the courthouse and get married or stop putting yourselves in situations that allow you to sin with each other. It really is no more complicated than this. As we all tend to do, it sounds like you've talked yourself out of doing what needs to be done. There's no real, physical barrier stopping you from getting a justice of the peace to marry you and then having a larger wedding affair later on when its more financially feasible. Your parents may not like it, but they aren't the ones who are having the sexual temptations and failure.

I would also echo drstevej's advice. Marriage counselling for the two of you is a very good idea! Preferably before you're married rather than after.

Selah.