Being Baptised

[AllTalkNoAction]

Baptism is for the remission of sins.

So remission of sins is not required for salvation, in your opinion ?

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

^ This clearly shows all that is necessary to be saved.

That interpretatiion clearly shows something about the teaching you have received . . .
These verses is toward the end of a long letter to people that have already been christians for some time.
Is he telling them how to become christians ?
Certainly not, the precious verse affirms "the word is in you, in your heart" - is that true of unsaved people ?
Certainly not.

Christians should confess and believe what they have already received to make their calling and election sure, that's what this verse is about.

In Acts, the apostles *never* told people "confess Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart and you are saved". Of course one must belive to be saved, but the heart is deceitful above all things, so we can never say that someone has received salvation unless God bares his independant witness - the apostles waited for the sign of speaking in tongues before judging that believers had received the Holy Spirit, *whereby* Jesus saves (Titus 3v5-6, John 3v5-8; Acts 2v4, 33, 39; 8v12-18; 10v44-48...)

You've said before the thief on the cross was saved under the old law.

Really ? Please show where I said this.

What about these verses from Galatians 3?
11
And:
Acts 10:44-48
^ Is it your contention that if the gentiles in the above passage had dropped dead or been kicked in the head by a mule before they got baptized, they would have gone to hell? They received the Holy Spirit, but would spend eternity in hell?

Can God not look after his sheep long enough for them to get baptised ?
Of course he can, that's why we never read of an incidence such as this!
If hypothetically that did happen God would know their desire to follow him.

why does he command that we should turn the other cheek? . . .

Look again at the verses you previously quoted from Mark16, Acts 2, 10 (see also the great commission in Matthew 28)
He is not commanding any of these things to people that havn't even received the Holy Spirit ?
And even if they have received, it is baptism that is immediately commanded, none of these other things.
Why is this ?

 

[snoochface]

So remission of sins is not required for salvation, in your opinion ?

Of course it is. But we are forgiven of our sins through accepting Jesus and his sacrifice on the cross for us.

Ephesians 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Baptism shows our obedience and our salvation. If someone is saved, they should want to be baptised. If they say they are saved and still want to be disobedient and not be baptised, you have to wonder... are they really saved? If someone says they are saved and still want to steal, you have to wonder. Salvation and baptism go hand in hand, but baptism isn't a requirement for salvation.

Really ? Please show where I said this.

Well, this is where I got it from:

Quote

Originally Posted by: snoochface

. . .If you feel this way, how do you explain Jesus' words to the thief on the cross?

This was before the New Covenant began. God is NOW expecting people to accept that a new life is given so they need to end the old existence "in the flesh".

Moving on...

Can God not look after his sheep long enough for them to get baptised ?
Of course he can, that's why we never read of an incidence such as this!
If hypothetically that did happen God would know their desire to follow him.

You can't have it both ways. Either baptism is a requirement for salvation, or it is not. Where is the Biblical evidence that God makes exceptions to his requirements?

If baptism is a requirement for salvation, there are a lot of hospital ministries, nursing home ministries, and prison ministries that may as well shut down right now, because if the sick, elderly, or imprisoned want to be saved but can't get baptised well... they're going to hell, right?

There may not be an incident of that nature in the Bible, but it happens all the time in life. I know of several people whose parents became saved shortly before their deaths and could not be baptised in the interim. It happens all the time in the ministries I mentioned. And I don't know of anyone - except you, maybe - who would say those people are going to hell for their lack of baptism. And if that's not what you would say, then it's not a requirement. It's an act of obedience.

 

[AllTalkNoAction]

Of course it is. But we are forgiven of our sins through accepting Jesus and his sacrifice on the cross for us.
Ephesians 1:7 . . .

So if we have redemption & forgiveness without water baptism, why do we need "remission of sins" through water baptism ?

If baptism is a requirement for salvation, there are a lot of hospital ministries, nursing home ministries, and prison ministries that may as well shut down right now, because if the sick, elderly, or imprisoned want to be saved but can't get baptised well... they're going to hell, right?

Since when is God not able to *at least* give poeple the strength to get baptised ?

He made the shadow go back to keep his word, surley Jesus christ who healed all that came to him can at least do that today ?
I know he has done this for elderly, hospitalised and imprisoned people, and has no favourites.

It may well be that these "ministries" you speak of are fulfilling the following prophecy:-
M't:25:44: Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
:45: Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment

There may not be an incident of that nature in the Bible, but it happens all the time in life. I know of several people whose parents became saved shortly before their deaths and could not be baptised in the interim.

How do you "know" they became saved ?

How are you able to judge their hearts ?

I don't know of anyone - except you, maybe - who would say those people are going to hell for their lack of baptism . . .

By mis-using scriptures such as Romans 10v9, and others that don't mention baptism to tell people they are saved when they have not done as the gospel commands and been baptised in water & Spirit (as detailed) it is you that is sending people to hell.

I'm doing the reverse - by affirming the simple command to be baptised and the promise of the infilling of the Spirit I promote true bible salvation to all who are willing to agree.

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."(Acts 2v37-39)

 

[snoochface]

I don't really see any reason to continue this debate with you. I believe the original poster has gotten the answer he was looking for. I'm bowing out.

Galatians 5:
25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

 

[DawnTillery]

If it is really important for you to be baptised right away, maybe you should talk to your pastor about it?
I had a major overwhelming feeling about being baptised immediately when I was ready. Luckily I only had to wait a month.
comfort yourself with John 3:16 ---