Being a Christian vs being Christ-like

[redleghunter]

Do you think there's a difference between the two? I am of the opinion that if one is a true Christian, a new-creation-lead-by-the-Spirit Christian then one will naturally (given their new nature) exemplify Christ-like actions and behaviors. What do you think?

I believe Jesus Christ and His apostles said something very similar.

 

[redleghunter]

This ought to be a good thread. Glad that you thought of it.

The definition and identification of a Christian is not found in his imitation of Christ, but in his reliance upon Him.

We are taught both by the apostles. Ephesians 5:1-2

 

[Kenny'sID]

I have never met the person who fits this description, so if I am to accept it, no one I know is a Christian, least of all me.

"Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." (1 John 3:2)

We are only partially like Him in life, but we will be fully like Him "when He appears". We are reflections of Christ, but since we do not see Him cl


If you can't explain the gospel to a dying person and have him understand and respond to it, you have a different gospel than Christ's. I use those examples to make that point, fully understanding they are not the norm.

If you can't explain the gospel to a dying person and have him understand and respond to it, you have a different gospel than Christ's. I use those examples to make that point, fully understanding they are not the norm.

???

OK, another evasive action. I really do wish some would stop doing this. If you can't back up your comments, then don't, but this is ridiculous.

Once again, do you see what you did there?

The subject was my reply to this (in bold):

This ought to be a good thread. Glad that you thought of it.

The definition and identification of a Christian is not found in his imitation of Christ, but in his reliance upon Him.

I disagree and ask you some questions to verify what you said, but instead of answering, you gave some some explanation that didn't come close to constituting normal life, and when I call you on that, you jump ship completely and move to another subject.

The subject wasn't explaining gospel to a dying person, it was my questioning this comment of yours:

The definition and identification of a Christian is not found in his imitation of Christ, but in his reliance upon Him.

So, here is my original reply (I'm going to get it now) to you and if you'd rather not deal with it fine...just say so or ignore it, at least that looks much better than what you are doing. Besides I'm thinning badly and don't have much more in the way of hair to pull out, so, have mercy.

Your post:

The definition and identification of a Christian is not found in his imitation of Christ, but in his reliance upon Him.

And my reply:

I was always under the impression that Christian meant Christ Like. At least the very nature of the term more than implies that. Reliance on anything is not necessarily being like it.

Now I'm sure you will likely tell me that is my interpretation so, I ask you to define the term "Christian" in detail so I can understand why it is relience.

But if I ask that of you, it's only fair I give you the why's on my understanding of the term. That would be, barbarian means barbaric, Unitarian/Presbyterian means as a Unitarian/Presbyterian, so in turn, Christian means "as Christ" and does not mean only reliance upon.

That said, please tell me why you feel the term "Christian" is not imitation but reliance in Christ. Honestly, at first glance, that explanation seems totally made up, but still giving benefit of the doubt and maybe your definition of Christian and how you come about that definition will shed some light on things....

 

[Reed000Naoi]

As a sidebar to this discussion, I wonder how most of you would define "Christian". Can it be simply about doing good works and being Christ-like? Or does it have to include, in essence, living by the Apostles Creed and putting every ounce of your faith in the Christian narrative vis-à-vis Jesus Christ's divinity, resurrection and purpose? I have always been a bit conflicted about that to be honest.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It is through reliance on Him that we can be made to imitate Christ.

I like it.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Do you think there's a difference between the two? I am of the opinion that if one is a true Christian, a new-creation-lead-by-the-Spirit Christian then one will naturally (given their new nature) exemplify Christ-like actions and behaviors. What do you think?

A Christian is someone who follows Christ to become more Christ-like. However, someone might act "Christ-like", but not necessarily follow Christ.

 

[Kenny'sID]

As a sidebar to this discussion, I wonder how most of you would define "Christian". Can it be simply about doing good works and being Christ-like? Or does it have to include, in essence, living by the Apostles Creed and putting every ounce of your faith in the Christian narrative vis-à-vis Jesus Christ's divinity, resurrection and purpose? I have always been a bit conflicted about that to be honest.

Since you say "include" and not one or the other, I would say both. I would just stick with the basics of believing in the plan of salvation, trying to be Christ like, good works and all and then work on the other. Don't worry about "every ounce" so much, just work on it and keep looking into the latter of what you mention.

At least that's the best, shortest and most simple advice I can give you off the top of my head.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I ask you to define the term "Christian" in detail so I can understand why it is relience.

A Christian is one who places his faith in the work of Christ on his behalf in order to be justified by God and reconciled to Him.

To a Christian, Christ lived the life he should have lived and died the death he should have died. A Christian is a Christian by his union with Christ, by his being clothed in Christ, by his sins being washed away through the waters of baptism. You can only describe a Christian in the context of the salvific work of Christ, which is how and why I attempted to convey it that way in earlier posts.

Reliance on Christ (His saving work) rather than self (my righteousness) is at the heart of both the gospel and Christianity. Galatians 2:20 comes to mind.

 

[Kenny'sID]

A Christian is one who places his faith in the work of Christ on his behalf in order to be justified by God and reconciled to Him.

Thanks for getting back on track with me.

But being a Christian has nothing to do with keeping Christs commandments? IOW, we only have faith in his work for us and not Christ himself or what he said we must do? Are we not to love Christ? and if we are to love him, are we not supposed to keep his commandments?

Is that not also at the heart of both the gospel and Christianity?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Thanks for getting back on track with me.

But being a Christian has nothing to do with keeping Christs commandments? IOW, we only have faith in his work for us and not Christ himself or what he said we must do? Are we not to love Christ? and if we are to love him, are we not supposed to keep his commandments?

Is that not also at the heart of both the gospel and Christianity?

You're welcome!

In short form, union with Christ is what I gave as an answer to the last question. That union produces fruit; however, the fruit don't make the tree. The tree makes the fruit. I'm not a Christian because I produce fruit. I produce fruit because I'm a Christian. If I had answered your first question with, one who keeps Christ's commands, however true that may be, it would give the wrong impression of Christianity and the gospel.

"I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing."

 

[keltoi]

Simple reply is yes there is a difference.
Being a Christian is different to being Christ like because being Christ like is something we should try to be. We are Christians not by our own actions but rather the actions of Christ who said "No one comes to the Father except through me". Only a Christian can come to the Father and only a Christian understands what it is to try to be Christ like (i.e. living how Christ himself would live) and even then I would suggest that all of us have fallen short of this in some way or another.

 

[Kenny'sID]

however, the fruit don't make the tree.

Actually, it does, but doesn't matter since I don't see what the fruit or the tree has to do with this in the context you use it unless you can show me scripture to back it up. Otherwise I will think it is only your reasoning.

"If you love me you will keep my commandments"...this is something I can back up...see the difference?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Actually, it does, but doesn't matter since I don't see what the fruit or the tree has to do with this in the context you use it unless you can show me scripture to back it up. Otherwise I will think it is only your reasoning.

"If you love me you will keep my commandments"...this is something I can back up...see the difference?

Just so I'm clear, are you saying that you become a Christian by obeying His commandments?

Fruit, vines, trees are all used to describe the Christian life. You must have missed the verse I quoted. Also, how is this unclear?: I'm not a Christian because I produce fruit. I produce fruit because I'm a Christian.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Just so I'm clear, are you saying that you become a Christian by obeying His commandments?

Of course not, and I actually took time to comment somewhat extensively about the fact those who don't believe works are a necessity keep bring that up for some reason when none of us are saying that and never have. And you should know that. My comment was no another tread you were a part of where others kept repeating the same thing...it's not just works. If I'm wrong, show me where anyone at all has said we become a Christian simply by doing works and nothing more.

Fruit, vines, trees are all used to describe the Christian life. You must have missed the verse I quoted. Also, how is this unclear?: I'm not a Christian because I produce fruit. I produce fruit because I'm a Christian.

No, I didn't see the verse you quoted and I would very much like to.

 

[Extraneous]

We are not saved by our works. However be abide in Christ be obeying His commands, thats what the bible teaches us. Paul tells us that we reap what we sow. If we wish to bear fruit then we must abide in the Lord, by abiding in His commands. He didn't give those commands for no reason, but so that we would know how to abide in him. Its about sowing to the spirit instead of the flesh. Galatians 5-6. The apostles teach us how to abide in Christ.

 

[iam13]

Do you think there's a difference between the two? I am of the opinion that if one is a true Christian, a new-creation-lead-by-the-Spirit Christian then one will naturally (given their new nature) exemplify Christ-like actions and behaviors. What do you think?

What an incredible spiritually intelligent question to ask! I fully commend you for asking such a question, as these are the important questions Christians at all levels must begin to ask themselves. Honestly, I have not lately experienced many Christians who are Christ like. Then again, speaking from experience, I can share with you that a Christ like lifestyle is not conducive to the current system we have chosen to live within. I know this because when I am at a most synchronized level with God (Through the Holy Spirit) that I have worked very hard to get there and have done so through making each choice I make a choice without sin, have even gone so far to not even allow a white lie into my mind for more than 48 hours, and what's more is that neither will I have had a need to interact in any way with money. BUT, as soon as I interact with money, or I say a white lie, or make a choice not line with the master of creation, "BOOOOOF" I am set back by a week or so from the trusted position I worked so hard to gain.

Example, I challenge everyone here to perform one simple challenge for themselves. The challenge involves simply counting how many times you lie throughout a average work day in your life. In order to meet this challenge you must be very focused and present throughout the day. Also, you must not attempt to stop yourself from the lying (On this round at least) rather jus remain non judgmental of your own lies and count them. You will be shocked at how many lies you tell throughout the day. White, Gray, and some even may be dark.

Once done realize this - it has been my hands on experience with God that highly suggests that for one to gain a more trusted position among his works, one must get work towards getting to a point whereby not even a white lie enters into their head for more than 2 days.

But quite frankly, a system that places its best liar (lawyer) into the Whitehouse as their leader, is not a system conducive to the pathway to/with God.

This all redefines that ole word we call RETREAT! haha

 

[Extraneous]

What an incredible spiritually intelligent question to ask! I fully commend you for asking such a question, as these are the important questions Christians at all levels must begin to ask themselves. Honestly, I have not lately experienced many Christians who are Christ like. Then again, speaking from experience, I can share with you that a Christ like lifestyle is not conducive to the current system we have chosen to live within. I know this because when I am at a most synchronized level with God (Through the Holy Spirit) that I have worked very hard to get there and have done so through making each choice I make a choice without sin, have even gone so far to not even allow a white lie into my mind for more than 48 hours, and what's more is that neither will I have had a need to interact in any way with money. BUT, as soon as I interact with money, or I say a white lie, or make a choice not line with the master of creation, "BOOOOOF" I am set back by a week or so from the trusted position I worked so hard to gain.

Example, I challenge everyone here to perform one simple challenge for themselves. The challenge involves simply counting how many times you lie throughout a average work day in your life. In order to meet this challenge you must be very focused and present throughout the day. Also, you must not attempt to stop yourself from the lying (On this round at least) rather jus remain non judgmental of your own lies and count them. You will be shocked at how many lies you tell throughout the day. White, Gray, and some even may be dark.

Once done realize this - it has been my hands on experience with God that highly suggests that for one to gain a more trusted position among his works, one must get work towards getting to a point whereby not even a white lie enters into their head for more than 2 days.

But quite frankly, a system that places its best liar (lawyer) into the Whitehouse as their leader, is not a system conducive to the pathway to/with God.

This all redefines that ole word we call RETREAT! haha

Its not about gaining and losing anything exactly, not in the sense that you seem to describe, if i understand you correctly, which i may not. Its instead about abiding in Him. When we don't obey, if we are in tune with the spirit, we will reap sorrow instead of Joy. We immediately know we must go to the throne of Grace and pray for restoration. At least that's my experience. The gain can quickly be restored by Gods grace, in his time, as we wait in him. Also, even though sin reaps sorrow and strife rather than joy and peace, not all sorrow is a result of sin, but that's another topic.

 

[Extraneous]

In other words, one doesnt need to count their lies, or sins. Thats totally useless. Its about being in tune with the spirit each moment.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Of course not, and I actually took time to comment somewhat extensively about the fact those who don't believe works are a necessity keep bring that up for some reason when none of us are saying that and never have.

We were just speaking about what a Christian in, and I said:

I'm not a Christian because I produce fruit. I produce fruit because I'm a Christian.

You dismissed my answer with this:

Actually, it does, but doesn't matter since I don't see what the fruit or the tree has to do with this in the context you use it unless you can show me scripture to back it up. Otherwise I will think it is only your reasoning.

"If you love me you will keep my commandments"...this is something I can back up...see the difference?

You disagreed with my statement and ended with this: "If you love you will keep my commandments".

My answer to what makes one a Christian was clearly not accepted by you, and you rebutted with a verse about keeping commandments. How have I misunderstood you?

 

[Kenny'sID]

We were just speaking about what a Christian in, and I said:

You dismissed my answer with this:

You disagreed with my statement and ended with this: "If you love you will keep my commandments".

My answer to what makes one a Christian was clearly not accepted by you, and you rebutted with a verse about keeping commandments. How have I misunderstood you?

I didn't dismiss the first dismal there at all, I asked you what the verse was that you indicated verified your talk of fruit so I could look into it.. I asked you to post the verse, and still would like to see it.

I don't know if it's acceptable by me or not. You aren't being real clear. You go into this talk of fruits that I've never heard before and that kind of messed up everything. Was that biblical or not, if so, once again, may I see the verse.