Beating the 'Stereotypes'...

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Just another thought from my overactive mind.

Maybe you, like me, have the 'sterotypical' male as a partner (be aware that I'm still in a leading-to-marriage dating relationship, not married, hence me saying 'partner'). By that I mean the following:

1) A fixer
2) Someone who would rather 'do' than 'let's talk about it'
3) An assumer (ie, the reason I feel this way is because... rather than actually ASKING me why I feel that way)

I hope you understand what I mean. Usually, women tend to be the better at communicating their needs, getting a conversation going on disagreements (rather than just fighting about it), and actually stopping to 'listen' rather than to 'fix'.

We've done a lot better at it lately. It required opening up and talking about things, but I still know that B would much rather 'get on with life' than stop and talk about how to get into healthier communication patterns, listening to me rather than assuming what the problem is and going out and fixing it immediately, etc etc. Don't get me wrong though - I love him for doing this out of love for me, and I think we've both seen the benefits - it's just he's a tad bit lazy when it comes to discussions, and would rather just go out and resolve things in 5 minutes flat (ie just apologise and move on) rather than have a discussion on how to NOT have the problem next time a similar issue crops up.

Do you married women still deal with someone who IS doing these things (but who you know is getting tired of it)? How do you 'stereotypical' men deal with it - all this talking, communicating, assessing feelings, etc etc? How do you break past the 'this is SO time consuming and boring!' into 'I can see this is healthy for our relationship'?

I am not being overly harsh on B about this. He has never said to me that he finds it boring, or pointless, but I just have this sense that he'd rather just 'fix' than talk about it. I know this is a 'male' trait, and I'm praying hard, but I'm just wondering...

Do men eventually get the hint that talking, assessing feelings, all of that is beneficial for the relationship, and start doing it FOR THEMSELVES, than just because their spouse feels it is a good way to handle things? I know B listens and talks about this stuff because he loves me, and knows it's important to me we do this (and I am grateful, and love him for this, and am determined to be happy that he is at least doing it, whether he wants to or not), but it doesn't stop me praying that one day he will do all of this out of his own free will!

So men - do you get into these conversations, and listen instead of fix, and do all these things that are defined as 'healthy communicating techniques' because you want to? Or are you just doing it to keep the peace?

Sometimes it's hard loving the stereotype!

Sasch

 

[Jenna]

DH is not a real big talker when it comes to serious issues that we need to communicate on, or feelings. I have been diligent in finding times to talk with him, while being careful not to talk the poor guy to death. So far, it has worked out fairly well. He has become better at letting me know when he has a problem, without being rude about it or anything. Me, I've gotten to chill way out, knowing that he's actually hearing me when I talk, and that things will be worked out. It's been good for both of us. The biggest issue with getting into a better mode of communication was to take it easy on him and not hound him all of the time. Ah, yes, and I also had to learn to assess what was a good time to talk. Choosing a poor time, like right before bed, caused more problems than it actually solved. So, I had to learn to be more patient. It's all going good though. I hope that everything with you and B keep progressing in a positive way.

 

[Saviot'Valuan]

Theres a saying that states 'a way of thinking will shape your attitude.' Thinking about stereotypes could cause you to think against one, or even all that fall in a category. Expecially the issue of sexism. Not all men are alike, and the same goes for women. However, I find more sexist bashing in this forum which I take as extremely hypocritical for followers of christ (not talking about this issue though).

Personally, I sit down with my partner when we have a dispute. We talk things over and about how we will resolve future issues, also including ways to prevent further issues. I like to talk to her. I'd rather do so actually than anything else. Rather than to watch a movie, chill with friends, and so on.

To resolve, ugg.. I do have issues in this area. Mainly because we have a difference in our tempers. I don't get upset where it falls behind civil. Neither does she, but when she gets upset, she likes to be alone. In my case, I like to be with her to discuss and talk, or to show her compassion that I'm not abandoning her for this issue. When she leaves and there isn't resolution or a discussion, I tear myself apart emotionally for one reason or another. Possibly out of fear. Luckily, we stay short of confrontation in most cases. The issues come, but we usually dismiss them.

 

[Dirac_Notation]

Deborah Tannen lives!

It's interesting that people who note that men and women tend to have differing communication styles invariably decide that women have got it right.

My wife, a woman, who is in fact female, wants me to fix some problems...so I tease her.

Wife: There's a spider on the wall.
Me: Yes, I hear what you are saying.
Wife: Well, smack it!
Me: I can't do that. You don't really want me to solve your problem...
Wife: Yes I do!
Me: Can't we talk about this?
Wife: No, kill the spider! Kill, kill, kill, kill!
Me: Yes, I see...

I should mention that she's here in the room dictating her part of this little play.

Anyway, think about it--what makes the man the bad guy?

 

[InTheFlame]

My opinion - in communication, the stereotypical male shares nothing and the stereotypical female nags, prods and probes (not to mention overwhelming him with details he cares nothing about), thus sending poor SM further into his shell. They're both doing the wrong thing

I guess ideally, some conversations should go like this:

W: Honey, I've got a problem I want to talk to you about.
M: OK, what do you want from me?
W: Sympathy and maybe some advice.
M: OK, shoot...

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Flame - thanks as always... kinda doing that as it is (ESPECIALLY with the nag thing, I've come to learn it's all about timing, and that if I'm tired, and trying to discuss things, nagging occurs - and that just isn't good when we're trying to continue a healthy relationship!)...

D_N - that just made me laugh, cos it sounds quite similar to something B would do to me, just to prove the point that my way ISN'T always the best way.

And I remember thinking, 'gee I sound like a know-it-all' when I wrote the first post, but didn't have the right words (or the energy) to word it better.

What I meant is, through studying marriages, most researchers have found that the ones who actually talk through the problems, and don't just jump in and 'fix' the immediate situation (without discussing how to prevent it from happening again and listening to each other), were the relationships that were more than likely to last. They also found that more often than not, it was the woman involved who encouraged talking and explaining, and the men were more happy to have a 'one size fit all' solution to the problem (and would be quite happy having the problem happen again and again, so long as it was resolved ASAP - preferably yesterday!).

I wasn't in any way trying to say 'men are wrong, women are right' - trust me I know a lot of females who are VERY different to the stereotype, and men who are the exact opposite as well (hope you don't mind me saying this Flame, but ITFs marriage would be a perfect example of one that doesn't fit the stereotypical responses of man/woman AT ALL)...

What I was just trying to say, was that I am in a stereotypical relationship (with the woman wanting to talk through the issue, and the man just wanting to fix it asap), and I wanted to know how others have resolved this.

We are doing well in the whole communication thing, I just know that it isn't what B would prefer to do, if he had his way. Same with any discussion of our relationship to counsellors/ministers - he does it because he loves me, and knows it's important to me, but would be quite happy just resolving it on our own, without any outside input from our minister or anything.

And again, I'm saying right here that I love that he does this for me, and realises it's important to me - I just sometimes wish that I wouldn't have to keep explaining to him why it's important to our relationship, and that he'd just start doing it on his own, and not wait for me to always start the conversations about how to 'resolve' a certain issue.

Thanks, and again I apologise if I came across holier than thou, or that men were the bad guy - they are SO not!

Sasch

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Gender roles and stereotypes are ingrained into us from the day we are born. I believe it is healthy to realize this rather than use them to excuse or perpetuate bad or unhealthy behaviors.

 

[Redguard]

Deborah Tannen lives!

It's interesting that people who note that men and women tend to have differing communication styles invariably decide that women have got it right.

My wife, a woman, who is in fact female, wants me to fix some problems...so I tease her.

Wife: There's a spider on the wall.
Me: Yes, I hear what you are saying.
Wife: Well, smack it!
Me: I can't do that. You don't really want me to solve your problem...
Wife: Yes I do!
Me: Can't we talk about this?
Wife: No, kill the spider! Kill, kill, kill, kill!
Me: Yes, I see...

I should mention that she's here in the room dictating her part of this little play.

Anyway, think about it--what makes the man the bad guy?

I nominate this for the POST OF THE YEAR award.

 

[searle29678]

My husband (like my father) has a very hard time understanding why I need to talk about things that happen at work. His brain is constantly going round and round with the same questions "Why is she telling me this? Is there something I need to do? Is there a secret solution to the issue that only I know?" While I never understand why he doesn't talk to me. He comes home in a bad mood and my first instinct is to ask him to talk about it or giving him the extremely annoying "What's wrong? Tell me, come on, you'll feel better if you talk about it?" He doesn't see the need because it's nothing I can fix, talking about it does no good because it doesn't solve anything, it just lets him fuss and ramble on for an hour for no good reason. As far as the other "man" stereotypes are concerned, he's not a "fixer" or "manly man" he is actually pretty un-manly about most things, don't ask for a description of what I mean because I really can't describe it.
Now my dad on the other hand, is very stereotypical. Never cries, always fixing something, doesn't talk a lot, would rather do it than talk about it, doesn't sugar coat things, takes pride in being able to run the whole house with one hand, hunts, fishes, falls asleep in the recliner after dinner while watching sports, etc...My mother thinks that it's just horrible that he isn't more compassionate and sensitive, sterotypically feminine traits. That is the way my dad, as a man, communicates his love to his family. Instead of gushing emotions and hugging us every ten minutes, he fixes things. I have always been able to see the love in that. I don't need the hugs and constant affirmation that some people do, you can look at a day in the life of my dad and know that he loves his family. I don't see anything wrong with the stereotypical male role in a family or marriage as long as he isn't the usual pig headed, beer drinking, strip bar visiting, husbands that they have on tv. (See Al Bundy) I personally think it compliments the female role very well to have that sort of man in the house. Just my opinion.

 

[gracefaith]

I'll admit it: I courted my husband by suffering interminable silences in his presence. I had come to understand that men generally appreciate not being talked to death and so I was out to prove that I was women who would let him have his space. Like most courtship behavior, it went out the window when I nabbed him.

There's a sort of balance to reached here. I know my husband loves me and with this security, I have no reason to weary him with constant demands for affirmation. Likewise, my husband recognizes that I am a "wee rabble rouser" and thus prone to ranting ad nauseum about things.

Relationships are ever the art of compromise.