Be honest!!

[Wild_Fan4Christ]

Finally, to be ignorant of the truth is to be ignorant of God. This is something many need to read and it may save the soul of not only ourselves, but to those we hope and pray to God to show them the truth. Everyone deserves all of it, not just partial.
http://home.inreach.com/bstanley/conseq.htm

God Bless

 

[Hoonbaba]

I do not believe in the Catholic sacremants and will never attend a Catholic church because I do not believe in what you believe so as a Protestant that believes that we are saved according to the Faith in Christ atoning blood by grace plus nothing then do you think I am am saved.

Just something to think about: Before the 1500s, protestants didn't exist. The Catholic Church hasn't changed their view on salvation for those 1500 years, yet you will see how different protestants are on what constitutes salvation. Lutherans, for example teach that baptism is in fact necessary

By the way we believe also in works but we believe when we are saved the works will follow but works in itself will not save anyone.

And Catholic believe that faith and works go together (James 2:24). In addition, when we face judgment, we will be judged based on our deeds. This is what Jesus, apostle John, and apostle Paul taught (Matt 16:27, Rev 2:23, Rom 2:5-6, Rev 20:12-13). All those verses testify that God will render everyone according to their deeds. Yet we are not earning heaven in any way. We believe that our works are the fruit of God's spirit living in us. No fruit would mean one may be voluntarily cut off from Christ (John 15:1-5).

Also baptism does not save us

And we believe that baptism in fact does save:

Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. (John 3:5)

How do we know this is about baptism? Because the context tells us:

After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized (John 3:22)

Additionally, John 3:5 parallels Titus 3:5

he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5)

Similarly...

Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. (Rom 6:3-4)
having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. (Col 2:12)

Additionally....

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (Gal 3:26-27)

So to refuse baptism means to not want to clothe oneself with Christ.

And finally...

who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also–not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (1 Peter 3:21-22)

Basically, it says baptism saves. How? Through the resurrection of Christ. Some would focus on the 'removal of dirt from the body' and think that's what baptism was referring to. Yet the obviousness of apostle Peter's words, "baptism that now saves you" is very clear, along with all the previous verses I listed which refer to identifying with Christ and being clothed with Him. This explains why apostle Peter would say (in response to the question, "what should we do?):

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

Similarly apostle Paul says:

And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’ (Acts 22:16)

Apparently baptism was for the washing of sins (compare with everything mentioned earlier).

So when we are baptized, we are identifying ourselves with Christ's death and resurrection, like when we are immersed and rise from the water. This is particularly why I like immersion. The Catholic Church doesn't say it's necessary to do it by simply pouring water on the person's head. The Didache (a really hold church document that supposedly dates as far back as the first century) mentions 3 different ways of baptism (if I remember correctly). They used the pouring water method in circumstances where bodies of water didn't exist. It seemed reasonable.

And what happens if you ask Jesus into your life and you die on the way to the Baptism. I am not trying to be contrary, but seeking to know what you folks really believe.

The Church specifically addresses the issue. It's called 'baptism of desire':

Catechism of the Catholic Church says "Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, are saved even if they have not been baptized" (CCC 1281; the salvation of unbaptized infants is also possible under this system; cf. CCC 1260–1, 1283).

Basically, if my friend is on his way to get baptized and dies in a car accident, he is saved. So the issue isn't whether someone doesn't have the opportunity to get baptized, the deeper issue is for those who utterly refuse to get baptized. By the way, the above was taken from this page.

Lastly, that page has a list of quotes from the Church Fathers in the early days of Christianity, long before protestants came around. They go as far back as the first 3 centuries of the Church. And their view on baptism was unanimous. Interestingly, Martin Luther's view (as well as many modern Lutherans) is also that baptism was necessary, he called baptism a work of God, not a work of man. It's something God does.

Hope this adequately explains what we believe regarding baptism.

-Jason

 

[racer]

Hey racer, I think you proved my point- You can love Jesus and accept that he died for you sins until all the cows come home but if you are repulsed by or deny His Church which is the Catholic Church, it isn’t Protestantism, but the Catholic Church in union with the bishop of Rome, you will not want to be in heaven- this is my point.

Accepting the Church as in Catholic Church in union with the bishop of Rome ia synonymous with accepting Christ. My whole point- you can’t accept one and not the other. So are prots saved? I dunno- if they UNTO death reject Christ’s Church it will be a rejection of Him.

Just because you say Lord, Lord it doesn’t mean you will enter.

Idonotseethispost, Idonotseethispost, Idonotseethispost . . . . . .
.
.
. . . Ooops, forgot my red slippers . . . be right back . . . . . . . . . . .
.
.
.**soft footsteps rush out of the room, door slams shut, door creaks back open and louder footsteps click back into the room . . . . heavy breathing ensues** . . . . ........................................................
.
.
. . . . Okay--I'm back--let's see, where was I . . . Oh, I remember, close my eyes, click my heels together and repeat:

Idonotseethispost, Idonotseethispost, IdoNOTseethispost . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[Skripper]

Idonotseethispost, Idonotseethispost, Idonotseethispost . . . . . .
.
.
. . . Ooops, forgot my red slippers . . . be right back . . . . . . . . . . .
.
.
.**soft footsteps rush out of the room, door slams shut, door creaks back open and louder footsteps click back into the room . . . . heavy breathing ensues** . . . . ........................................................
.
.
. . . . Okay--I'm back--let's see, where was I . . . Oh, I remember, close my eyes, click my heels together and repeat:

Idonotseethispost, Idonotseethispost, IdoNOTseethispost . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

You two need to give each other a big hug!

 

[Benedicta00]

Idonotseethispost, Idonotseethispost, Idonotseethispost . . . . . .
.
.
. . . Ooops, forgot my red slippers . . . be right back . . . . . . . . . . .
.
.
.**soft footsteps rush out of the room, door slams shut, door creaks back open and louder footsteps click back into the room . . . . heavy breathing ensues** . . . . ........................................................
.
.
. . . . Okay--I'm back--let's see, where was I . . . Oh, I remember, close my eyes, click my heels together and repeat:

Idonotseethispost, Idonotseethispost, IdoNOTseethispost . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Lisa,


In you attempt to not debate you have dance around what you really want to say and that is the Church is this invisible body that has no doctrine and once in haven it ceases, and it really don’t matter, what matters is if you accept Jesus.

It’s not true. This is the Church- it is the kingdom of God. The Church is what heaven is up there and it is filed with truth.

Jesus did give us a earthy visible Church that leads us and guides us to heaven, Lisa and Jesus wills for us all to be members of it because it is what leads us and guides us to heaven vis through teaching us pure truth. Christ’s Church it is BOTH, not one or the other but BOTH a visible divine institution that contains the fullness of what Christ died to give us and it’s members are made up of all who have been born again- born again as in who have had original sin removed through baptism.

If you can not will accept this Church- how are you going to be saved, Lisa? When you meet God and still reuse to come to grips with the fact that truth is all that the Catholic Church said it was, how are you going to be saved?

You can answer me all you want that you don’t believe the Catholic Church teaches us the full truth but when you die you will find out and it is then between you and God alone, no one else and if at that mement you still think Catholicism is wrong- then what are you going to do? What choice are you left with?

 

[Benedicta00]

I want to add, it is a willful rejection of the Church that stems from pure hatred of the Catholic Church. I do believe many Protestants know not what they do but for those who have such a hatred for the Church I hope that they will soften when they meet the Lord face to face.

No one here on earth has any idea who will be saved in the end and won’t- what goes on between a person and God is between a person and God.

I really dislike threads where we are asked to judge the state of another’s soul. Protestants seems to be very preoccupied with this, asking us all the time do we think they are saved? Heck, I don’t if I’m saved because I’m still here and Lord only know how far in this journey I have left to go. I live on the hope that Christ gives to me and I pray others do too.

 

[racer]

Lisa,


In you attempt to not debate you have dance around what you really want to say and that is the Church is this invisible body that has no doctrine and once in haven it ceases, and it really don’t matter, what matters is if you accept Jesus.

It’s not true. This is the Church- it is the kingdom of God. The Church is what heaven is up there and it is filed with truth.

Jesus did give us a earthy visible Church that leads us and guides us to heaven, Lisa and Jesus wills for us all to be members of it because it is what leads us and guides us to heaven vis through teaching us pure truth. Christ’s Church it is BOTH, not one or the other but BOTH a visible divine institution that contains the fullness of what Christ died to give us and it’s members are made up of all who have been born again- born again as in who have had original sin removed through baptism.

If you can not will accept this Church- how are you going to be saved, Lisa? When you meet God and still reuse to come to grips with the fact that truth is all that the Catholic Church said it was, how are you going to be saved?

You can answer me all you want that you don’t believe the Catholic Church teaches us the full truth but when you die you will find out and it is then between you and God alone, no one else and if at that mement you still think Catholicism is wrong- then what are you going to do? What choice are you left with?

Michelle,

You continually make bold, rash, prideful, arrogant, and judgemental statements such as the one above in this forum where you can not be openly refuted or challenged. What purpose does this serve? Does it make you feel intelligent and powerful?

I could go to another forum and make the same statements about your faith, Michelle. However, I don't dare. Why? Because that's not the Christian thing to do.

Let me just say this, give you something to dwell upon. Your attitude and tactics do very little to endear people "not of your faith" to your faith. Thank goodness there are many here who make up for such a demeanor.

God bless you. You're in my prayers. BTW, I didn't even read the whole response, because after the first sentence, I saw it was pointless.

 

[racer]

***Uhem, . . . it looks like the red slipper trick didn't work. So, really this time, I'm leaving the thread. I've worked too hard to overcome my sharp tongue and rash responses to let myself be goaded into exchanging ***-for-tat.***

 

[Benedicta00]

Michelle,

You continually make bold, rash, prideful, arrogant, and judgemental statements such as the one above in this forum where you can not be openly refuted or challenged. What purpose does this serve? Does it make you feel intelligent and powerful?

Lisa,

You are free to presume and second guess and rash judge my intentions and motivations, it does not bother me, but I have only answered to your allusive statements that the Catholic Church under Rome is not the true Church but only and just a invisible mystical loose body of believers. It’s not, it is both.

This is the long and short of the whole thread, we know where the Church is (Rome) but we do not know where it isn’t.


Non Catholics are always trying to back us a corner to admit to I don’t even know what- but no one wants to just accept that we do not judge souls, not even our own but we can only witness to what we know is true, the Catholic Church.

 

[nyj]

Moderator hat on:

I'm cranky, I'm out of bubblegum... and most important of all... I'm out of patience.

 

[nyj]

Hmmm, I wonder what this button does.

***Thread Closed, Pending Moderator Review***