Be alert soon to be fathers..

[justwokeup]

Although most mothers, not all of them can take care of their babies properly. However the beginning of life is crucial what comes to the rest of it. It decides what kind of the world you are born into, will it be loving or will it be hostile. Women's violence manifests itself at it's worst in the mother-baby relationship where the powerarrangement is naturally huge. Men as well others should be aware of the excistence of this rare type of violence which can take place when man is absent which makes it imposible to notice. Still it causes serious damages and jeopardizes the child's humaneness.
So protect your babies from this danger future fathers if necessary by talking to your wives about the subjectmatter and demanding the best care for the newborm.

 

[friend of]

Can you define this "rare type of violence" ?

 

[blackribbon]

??? Extremely rare since I haven't heard of it and I am a postpartum nurse. Chances are that it existed before pregnancy as mental illness or a personality disorder (like narcissism) or is a symptom of postpartum depression to the psychotic level.

The truth is that dads should be active in their baby's lives from birth...and not feel like the baby is "woman's work". They also should recognize that it is exhausting to simply make enough milk and nurse a baby...so they should be helping when they are home. If a daddy is actively involved in his family life, he will see if there is something wrong like postpartum depression and it will extremely hard to hide any abuse.

 

[PloverWing]

I agree with blackribbon. Don't "demand the best care for the newborn"; help provide the best care for the newborn. The dad should do his share of rocking the baby to sleep, changing the baby's diapers, carrying the baby around in one of those little pouches while doing his daily routine, etc. If your family is bottle-feeding, you can take some of those 2am feedings as well. Be absent as little as possible during those first few months; parenting an infant is a full-time job for both of you.

 

[Larniavc]

Although most mothers, not all of them can take care of their babies properly. However the beginning of life is crucial what comes to the rest of it. It decides what kind of the world you are born into, will it be loving or will it be hostile. Women's violence manifests itself at it's worst in the mother-baby relationship where the powerarrangement is naturally huge. Men as well others should be aware of the excistence of this rare type of violence which can take place when man is absent which makes it imposible to notice. Still it causes serious damages and jeopardizes the child's humaneness.
So protect your babies from this danger future fathers if necessary by talking to your wives about the subjectmatter and demanding the best care for the newborm.

I think you may get better results from not demanding.

When my son was born I took the eight weeks paternity leave and we worked as a team.

A lot of the variance of poor maternal care comes from isolation induced pnd.

 

[Dave-W]

The truth is that dads should be active in their baby's lives from birth...and not feel like the baby is "woman's work". They also should recognize that it is exhausting to simply make enough milk and nurse a baby...

Not always possible. When you are working 60+ hours a week to allow Mom to stay at home with the children. That can be pretty exhausting too.

When we were in that phase of our lives, I was also on staff (unpaid) at church as a board member and head of the worship/music ministry and taught a class. I also filled in preaching for the pastor if he was out of town or ill.

That was another 25-30 hours a week.

 

[Dave-W]

When my son was born I took the eight weeks paternity leave

There was no "paid leave" back then. You got your 2 weeks "vacation" as a check for 10 days pay; and were discouraged from taking any time off for it.

 

[Paidiske]

Maybe part of what needs to happen is pushing for change in workplace culture, to allow dads to more easily be involved parents in these early months? I've heard of some employers, for example, allowing new dads to work one day less a week, or go home a couple of hours early each day, for some months after the birth... that sort of thing can make a huge difference!

 

[blackribbon]

Not always possible. When you are working 60+ hours a week to allow Mom to stay at home with the children. That can be pretty exhausting too.

When we were in that phase of our lives, I was also on staff (unpaid) at church as a board member and head of the worship/music ministry and taught a class. I also filled in preaching for the pastor if he was out of town or ill.

That was another 25-30 hours a week.

God-Family-Church. I don't care how many hours you work, that baby requires a mother and a father. Changing a few diapers and giving a few baths is the quickest way to monitor for abuse be it from the mother or any other caregivers. Changing a diaper and rocking the baby doesn't require that much energy and can even be done in front of the tv. Don't have a baby if you don't have time to parent it. Maybe you should have considered temporarily stepping down from some of your volunteer work to parent your child and support your wife.

 

[blackribbon]

Maybe part of what needs to happen is pushing for change in workplace culture, to allow dads to more easily be involved parents in these early months? I've heard of some employers, for example, allowing new dads to work one day less a week, or go home a couple of hours early each day, for some months after the birth... that sort of thing can make a huge difference!

Only if they actually do participate in caring for the baby. I have watched too many dads sleep all night while their wives cared for the newborns all night long after having a c-section. Often their version of participation is to call me, the nurse and ask me what is wrong with their baby because he/she won't stop crying (um, change the diaper, feed the baby, then hold him or her). The reason we allow dads to stay in the room is to help parent that newborn and ask the nurses any questions they have about normal baby care. We had one dad lie to every nurse saying he didn't know how to change a diaper (twin boys and the mother was recovering from a c-section) even though we each stood over him and talked him through the process shift after shift. He finally admitted that he "didn't particularly LIKE changing diapers" to one nurse who simply remarked..."no one likes changing diapers"...and talked him through another diaper change. Saddest part is he had 3 children at home whom he had never changed a diaper on.

 

[Dave-W]

Changing a few diapers and giving a few baths is the quickest way to monitor for abuse be it from the mother or any other caregivers.

Oh I did all that too. And my wife was never near to being abusive. I trusted her completely.

Changing a diaper and rocking the baby doesn't require that much energy

Did that too. For a few weeks we had 3 girls under the age of 2. (twins)

Don't have a baby if you don't have time to parent it.

Wife wanted the children. My job was to give her time and $$ to be able to do that.

Maybe you should have considered temporarily stepping down from some of your volunteer work to parent your child and support your wife.

That was all 30+ years ago. I did support her. It was me who got little "support." Thought I did not need it, probably would have rejected it if offered. So I went about 8-9 years on only 2 hours of sleep a night.

 

[Dave-W]

Maybe part of what needs to happen is pushing for change in workplace culture, to allow dads to more easily be involved parents in these early months?

I am actually rather uneasy with that concept.

I am all for dads working EXTRA hours, double shifts and multiple jobs.

 

[Paidiske]

I guess I reflect on my experience - I was fortunate, my husband had two months at home with me when our daughter was born, and then flexible arrangements with his employer after that - it helped create a great bond between them, and, I think, helped keep my mental health only at "mild anxiety" rather than "crushing PND" level. And was enriching and delightful for him!

And also because I want a world where becoming a mother doesn't automatically make education, work, or other aspects of life nigh unto impossible, and for that to happen we need it to be easier, not harder, for dads to take an equal share in parenting. For a while there my husband and I each worked three days a week and had really very equal parenting, and we had others around us talk about us having found the "holy grail" of work-family balance. It wasn't perfect (nothing is) but it was a darned sight better than me being trapped at home while he slogged his guts out.

A world where we idolise work as the point of our existence is unhealthy in so many ways; we need to create a culture where we work to live, not the other way around. A world where anyone needs to work double shifts or multiple jobs out of the need to survive (not from desire, and even that should ideally only for a short time) is, imho, wrong.

 

[blackribbon]

I am actually rather uneasy with that concept.

I am all for dads working EXTRA hours, double shifts and multiple jobs.

Again, don't have a child that you don't want to parent...I don't care how much "the wife wants it". Children need mothers & fathers and God designed the family unit that way. It almost sounds like you are endorsing working to get away from the family...not to support your wife and children. I really hope I am misunderstanding you.

 

[Dave-W]

It almost sounds like you are endorsing working to get away from the family...

No - it is not to escape anything. The work is to SUPPORT the family.

 

[blackribbon]

[QUOTE="DaveW-Ohev, post: 71155315, member: 354693"
That was all 30+ years ago. I did support her. It was me who got little "support." Thought I did not need it, probably would have rejected it if offered. So I went about 8-9 years on only 2 hours of sleep a night.[/QUOTE]

You are also the one who worked an extra 25-30 hours a week for nothing but your self-gratification and to serve people who were not your immediate family and first responsiblity.

 

[Dave-W]

we need to create a culture where we work to live, not the other way around.

Does that not run counter to the way God set up world after the fall?

Gen 3.17b Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
18 “Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you will eat the plants of the field;
19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust, And to dust you shall return.”

 

[blackribbon]

I realize that this was a different time period culturally...but I hope you wouldn't advise your sons and grandsons to put teaching Sunday School or participating in the choir over spending time with their children if their time away from work is limited.

 

[Dave-W]

You are also the one who worked an extra 25-30 hours a week for nothing but your self-gratification and to serve people who were not your immediate family and first responsiblity.

Really? You want to go there?

I found nothing "gratifying" about it at all beyond my wife being able to stay at home full time with our children which was HER desire from the start.

My "gratification" was falling asleep behind the wheel and getting T-boned and almost dying.

Happy Birthday Twins!
Dad is in the hospital on life support for your 3rd birthday.

Praise God for intercessors that prayed me thru that. I should not have survived at all.

But even thru that, I would do that all again if my wife wanted.

 

[Paidiske]

Does that not run counter to the way God set up world after the fall?

Gen 3.17b Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
18 “Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you will eat the plants of the field;
19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust, And to dust you shall return.”

I don't think that means that, if you're able to meet your financial obligations and needs by working, say, a forty-hour week, that it's somehow a morally good thing to seek to spend sixty hours in paid employment.

What does God call us to in this life? Is it to spend as much time as possible in our paid employment? Or is it to create a life which has dimensions beyond that; family, community, and so on?