Battling with Scripture

[Pixey]

Hi Friends

Just a little unsure here - i live in a country where our governing party is all about self-enrichment and now becoming callous about it.

While i am blessed daily and thank God for it, i fear for my children's futures here (as we sit on the now receiving end of the racial divide).

Now while i was (funny enough) busy with reading plan "Watch Your Mouth" (wonder why i need that one, hey ) - the following scripture was used after the devotional:

Romans 13:1-2 NIV

1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.​

There is a huge uprising going on currently against our government and it's on the news 24/7. But reading the above, i guess it banks the question - do we subject to governing authorities even when they are corrupt?

It's more of a theoretical question, as there is not much i can do except pray.

And pray i do, very much so, as my family and i form part of the minority group whose ancestors oppressed the natives of the land. Hatred for us flows openly these days and fills me with so much anxiety, especially today.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Hi Friends

Just a little unsure here - i live in a country where our governing party is all about self-enrichment and now becoming callous about it.

While i am blessed daily and thank God for it, i fear for my children's futures here (as we sit on the now receiving end of the racial divide).

Now while i was (funny enough) busy with reading plan "Watch Your Mouth" (wonder why i need that one, hey ) - the following scripture was used after the devotional:

Romans 13:1-2 NIV

1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.​

There is a huge uprising going on currently against our government and it's on the news 24/7. But reading the above, i guess it banks the question - do we subject to governing authorities even when they are corrupt?

It's more of a theoretical question, as there is not much i can do except pray.

And pray i do, very much so, as my family and i form part of the minority group whose ancestors oppressed the natives of the land. Hatred for us flows openly these days and fills me with so much anxiety, especially today.

That's one of the many problems I have with the Bible. By that logic, it was good to submit to Hitler and the Nazis because God put Hitler in power and wanted him in power. By that logic, protesting against even the most corrupt government is protesting against God.

 

[pescador]

In Romans 13 it says this: "Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good." From what you describe the authority that you are under clearly is not the servant for your good.

No Christian is under any obligation to obey any government whose goal is doing evil.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Do we subject to governing authorities even when they are corrupt? ... my family and I form part of the minority group whose ancestors oppressed the natives of the land. Hatred for us flows openly these days and fills me with so much anxiety, especially today.

Hi, Pixey.

The point Paul was making here was that, unlike the Jews who were becoming increasingly tempted to rebel against the Romans in the power of their flesh, Christianity was not to turn to the power of rebellion to accomplish its end. The teaching of Christianity was to overcome evil with good. This is why Jesus taught that if a Roman soldier commanded you to carry his gear for one mile (a Roman law in Judea at the time, which the average Jew absolutely hated), the believer should go with him two miles of his own free will, so as to demonstrate not only no animosity to him over the law, but show him love, respect and helpfulness above and beyond what was asked or expected.

This was to be the same attitude Christians had towards all in authority. They were to lift up holy hands praying for those in authority without speaking out resentfully about how they were being governed, so that if the government had a problem with anyone in society, it most certainly was not the Christians, who were simply going about their business "peaceably," and trying to be the best citizens possible.

The one thing Christians could not obey under any circumstances was denying the Lord Jesus Christ, or doing anything that would offend Him. But other than that, they were be model citizens that were pleasing to their rulers, which hopefully would turn the hearts of the rulers towards governing them graciously. In some instances, it might even lead to some of them excepting the Lord Jesus as their Savior after seeing the wonderful effects that it had had on other believers, who were once rebellious, angry and resentful towards the government, but behaved so respectfully and graciously now instead.

If you need any scriptures for the things I just said, feel free to ask and I'll post them for you.

Hope this helps, and if you wish to continue having the conversation, tell me what country you live in.

 

[CrystalDragon]

In Romans 13 it says this: "Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good." From what you describe the authority that you are under clearly is not the servant for your good.

No Christian is under any obligation to obey any government whose goal is doing evil.

But God commanded people to do evil in the Old Testament.

 

[Hidden In Him]

But God commanded people to do evil in the Old Testament.

Long discussion, which I believe I had with you in another thread, did I not?

 

[Pixey]

In Romans 13 it says this: "Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good." From what you describe the authority that you are under clearly is not the servant for your good.

No Christian is under any obligation to obey any government whose goal is doing evil.

Okay, so participation in a revolution is OK?

The teaching of Christianity was to overcome evil with good.

Thank you for this reminder specifically. Your post was helpful

 

[Hidden In Him]

Thank you for this reminder specifically. Your post was helpful

You are very welcome : )

 

[Greg J.]

Hi Friends

Just a little unsure here - i live in a country where our governing party is all about self-enrichment and now becoming callous about it.

While i am blessed daily and thank God for it, i fear for my children's futures here (as we sit on the now receiving end of the racial divide).

Now while i was (funny enough) busy with reading plan "Watch Your Mouth" (wonder why i need that one, hey ) - the following scripture was used after the devotional:

Romans 13:1-2 NIV

1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.​

There is a huge uprising going on currently against our government and it's on the news 24/7. But reading the above, i guess it banks the question - do we subject to governing authorities even when they are corrupt?

It's more of a theoretical question, as there is not much i can do except pray.

And pray i do, very much so, as my family and i form part of the minority group whose ancestors oppressed the natives of the land. Hatred for us flows openly these days and fills me with so much anxiety, especially today.

While this can be complicated, it usually is not. We are to obey governmental authorities even when they are corrupt as long as we do not sin or advance sin. We can work peacefully toward change in moral ways, of course. We can live a Godly lifestyle even if it is contrary to the government.

The book of Daniel talks about Daniel's service to the king and how the king favored Daniel. Daniel ignored one of the king's commands because it was contrary to one of the things he did to honor God. Daniel was willing to suffer for it. The pertinent point from Daniel I want to make is that the king was not a follower of God, and yet Daniel who was a holy man of God remained in favor. We can see in the book that God helped Daniel to be that way. What is it like to work for a non-Christian employer? We avoid getting ourselves into positions where we might have to compromise our values to please our employer. We should avoid being unequally yoked with anything that might cause us to sin, because not sinning takes precedence.

God punished the Jews by letting the Babylonians kill them and do horrible things, but to the Jews that survived and were carried off to Babylon, God said to settle down and live there. In other words, they were to live in enemy territory peacefully. Even when God released the Jews from slavery in Egypt, the Jews were to continue to live peacefully there as opposed to go to war against Egypt

... Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. (Romans 12:17b-18, 1984 NIV)

Jesus explained to Peter that he would pay taxes to not offend the government, even though Jesus was King of the Earth and did not morally have to pay taxes to the government.

“However, so that we do not offend them, go to the sea and throw in a hook, and take the first fish that comes up; and when you open its mouth, you will find a shekel. Take that and give it to them for you and Me.” (Matthew 17:27, 1984 NASB)

Ultimately, the way to really understand this, is to recognize God's authority when you look at government officials. (God caused or allowed all authorities to come to power.) God wants us to have hearts that are yielded to the authority that God has given those over us (which includes parents, police, etc.). However, with the Holy Spirit's help, we sometimes will recognize that something those in authority are doing does not stem from God's authority—you can't tell just by recognizing they are sinning. One example is when Daniel did not follow the king's command to bow down to a statue of the king. The only right Satan has is to exist and be punished, but God has left him in place for a time to accomplish God's will. God does this with people in governments, as well. (To be clear, Satan has no authority over us.)