Battered Sheep

[Jfrsmth]

If you have experienced lording pastors (e.g. giving orders, "obey me" or be disciplined, "don't question me", "touch not the Lord's anointed, and the like), cultic tendencies in your church (e.g. forbidden to associate with others outside of the church, others outside of your church are "lost", forbidden or frowned upon to ask honest and sincere questions, and the like), or being spiritually beaten with the Word of God by a pulpit-pounding angry man every Sunday, and other experiences that have left you feeling battered for simply seeking to worship corporately at your local Christian church, please share your experience.

I had a similar experience with a church/pastor who refused to hear a long-time friend and brother show him/them in love what the Lord said about worship, the church, leadership, and teaching from His Word. The pastor rejected everything I shared with him, even though it was all Scriptually anchored. Soon, he convinced the church that my family and I were evil and without our consent or presence, they "voted" us out of the church based on fabricated comments from the pastor.

It was devastating. My wife and I had been there for years, served there, grew up spiritually there, and I was a leader in the church with several ministries. The brethren were our family and it was all torn away from us in an instant because someone decided that the Word of God did not apply to him, and brethren refused to hear the truth. It was cultic. Terrible. It sent us reeling and spiraling down from church.

We had to find another church, but how can you replace your church home? Very difficult time and times until now. I miss the fellowship. We are recovering and seeking to put it behind us, but I am reminded that there are so many others who have suffered as the result of simply wanting corporate worship to be how the Lord tells us in His Word; to be about fellowship; about brethren taking the Word of God and expounding on it as the Lord has revealed to them, singing unto the Lord, ...

Until now, we have not found a properly led or functioning church (i.e. dysfunctional churches). I am more protective now over my family and will not bring them or me under submission to leaders or a church that does not honor the Lord first through His Word. If they are not "walking" (in the Word), they are not worth "following" ("Be ye followers of me [Paul], even as I also am of Christ" - 1Corinthians 11:1).

The Lord has been bringing me through a journey of grace for some years now beginning with giving me understanding of 1Peter 5:3, "Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind." I have studied this and researched for some years now and am convinced that what we see in churches today is NOT what the Lord would have for His sheep; not the abundant life He wants for us.

The sheep are starving, bleating, wounded, and wandering without proper food, and a proper "shepherd" to protect them. The Lord (John 10:27) and His Holy Spirit (John 16:13) are our guides, it is the task of the undershepherds to "feed" and "protect" the flock of God (Jeremiah 3:15; 1Peter 5:3; Acts 20:29), from false teaching (Philippians 3:2) which is why the spiritual leader should be "laboring in the word" (1Timothy 5:17) and "worthy of double honor" because they study and search the scriptures more than the average brethren. Why? So they can rule over the sheep? No, to protect the brethren from false teaching if someone is teaching bad doctrine.

This is why brethren should be "submitted to" these leaders in Hebrews 13:17 (the ever-popular and gravely misunderstood verse of choice by overbearing and unlearned "pastors"). However, sharing the Word of God is terribly neglected by the very "pastors" who are supposed to be caring for you; who have allowed pride to enter in and dominate and rule over the sheep (1Timothy 3:6). This is in stark contrast to our Lord who is the gentle Shepherd (Isaiah 40:11).

There is so much more to share, but let me stop here and let you share your story, and let's let the Word of God minister to us, teach us, and comfort us.

 

[grandvizier1006]

This is why I just go to sermons on Sundays. Then again my pastor is not the commanding, domineering type.

 

[Jfrsmth]

This is why I just go to sermons on Sundays. Then again my pastor is not the commanding, domineering type.

But, there is so much more we could get out of a "church service." We are missing an element of the abundant life that the Lord meant for us to experience when brethren come together to "worship."

 

[RC1970]

"For where God built a church, there the Devil would also build a chapel." ~ Martin Luther

 

[RC1970]

... and so, the cry "ecclesia semper reformands, semper reformanda" continues until Christ consummates His Kingdom.

 

[Gordon Wright]

Well, I've been in churches like that. But I've discovered that there other ways a church can horribly wrong.

I was once in a church within a rapidly growing movement that had a history of that. At one point, the elders got fed up with the evangelist and kicked him out. Logically, people should have seen that as a sign of hope for the future, but people aren't logical. The movement, which had been in the beginning a decline, went to pieces. It seems people had evolved a dependency on the strong, charismatic leader.

Afterward, one of the pieces dusted itself off, and the elders decided to do the exact opposite of what they perceived as the problem. Their diagnosis was too much harshness. So, they decided to go all namby-pamby and touchy-feely. They kept a lot of their old attitudes and practices that didn't make any sense, but they jettisoned this one error among many, swapping it out for the equal and opposite error. A number of bad things happened, but not because of harshness. A number of good things failed to happen, and a more Biblical understanding of the uses of harshness might have helped.

I could have forgiven the bad things that happened there, for the same reason I had overlooked the faults of the previous movement. What I couldn't accept was the lack of good things happening. How else can you define a dead church? I was embarrassed to invite visitors because of the pervasive mediocrity. I spoke out against it, and got nowhere.

After I got fed up with that and left, I realized that it was a mistake to focus on one church organization. I had already put up with a lot of garbage because I had decided it was between me and God, not me and the idiot up at the pulpit. Now I've come to the opinion that church hopping, done with the right attitude, is not wrong. I'm not looking for a good church to make my home. I'm looking to transcend every church's limitations.

By the way, I attend one church where I step out during the sermons because the preacher's too full of himself, but I stick around for the rest. You take the good and you leave the bad. Focus on God, and you'll understand what constitutes the real body of Christ. The Spirit is not concentrated in any one building. There are scraps of the Spirit in many places.

 

[Jfrsmth]

By the way, I attend one church where I step out during the sermons because the preacher's too full of himself, but I stick around for the rest. You take the good and you leave the bad. Focus on God, and you'll understand what constitutes the real body of Christ. The Spirit is not concentrated in any one building. There are scraps of the Spirit in many places.

Brother, I can absolutely identify with this statement. . . so true. How many times have I had to step out because it was breaking my heart to hear what this man was saying from the pulpit that was not biblically sound. Yet, the people in the pews listened to and received it as "law" because the "pastor" said it, so it must be true; knowing I could not do much about it. So, I pray and ask God to do something about it. The thing is though, He knows/knew about it, long before I ever brought it to His attention (",) and permits it for His own purposes. But, my part is still to pray...

I appreciate your comments also about taking the good and leaving the bad. However, to focus on the Lord in a dysfunctional environment where one hopes to meet God corporately is quite moot since the Word of God, fellowship, breaking bread, and hymns and spiritual songs are being neglected in these churches. It so often becomes a "show" and a "one-man show" at that with some entertainment mixed in from the "stage." Nevertheless, your words are something to give more consideration to. It's the whole dysfunctional environment that I just do not want my family exposed to. Yes, true brother, "scraps of the Spirit," are anywhere we find the brethren but is that what the Lord meant when He said he wanted us to have life abundantly (John 10:10)?

Thank you for your comments!

 

[Johnnz]

Ezekiel wrote this:
Ezek 34:1-10
The word of the Lord came to me: 2 "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to the shepherds of Israel who only take care of themselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock? 3 You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock. 4 You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bound up the injured. You have not brought back the strays or searched for the lost. You have ruled them harshly and brutally. 5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd, and when they were scattered they became food for all the wild animals. 6 My sheep wandered over all the mountains and on every high hill. They were scattered over the whole earth, and no one searched or looked for them.

7 "'Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: 8 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, because my flock lacks a shepherd and so has been plundered and has become food for all the wild animals, and because my shepherds did not search for my flock but cared for themselves rather than for my flock, 9 therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: 10 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them.NIV

Now Jesus is the One Good Shepherd. Only pastors deeply rooted in Jesus can begin to shepherd correctly. But sheep aren't stupid. We know when we are not being cared for adequately.

John
NZ

 

[Jfrsmth]

Ezekiel wrote this:
Only pastors deeply rooted in Jesus can begin to shepherd correctly. But sheep aren't stupid. We know when we are not being cared for adequately.

John
NZ

Amen, and amen. . . thank you for this message!

 

[Gordon Wright]

I appreciate your comments also about taking the good and leaving the bad. However, to focus on the Lord in a dysfunctional environment where one hopes to meet God corporately is quite moot since the Word of God, fellowship, breaking bread, and hymns and spiritual songs are being neglected in these churches. It so often becomes a "show" and a "one-man show" at that with some entertainment mixed in from the "stage."

Well, when I see that, I don't come back.

Let me be more specific. A church can have an evangelist who's out of touch and prideful, but the elders aren't insane. If he goes too far, the elders will throw him out. I've seen it happen. It happened too late, but it happened. There are degrees of wrongness in a church. No church is perfect, but many are acceptable.

I think a lot of the people in this church are like me. They don't follow this pastor; they follow Christ. They've learned from past experiences in this regard. What they do is they extend him a kind of grace. It's a little condescending, like "oh, there he goes again." It's also realistic. Preachers are human, and they need forgiveness.

A healthy church does not have unrealistic expectations of its clergy, and puts its faith in God alone.

 

[Jfrsmth]

Yes sir, ideally, a church WILL have elders watching over the flock of God. However, that is not always the case, and some churches have a single pastor over them and this is where it can get sketchy and even unbearable.

I agree with you brother, there simply cannot be any perfect churches this side of heaven, but is it too much to ask to have the word of God taught and the spiritual leader/s seek the welfare of the brethren, as Christ taught us and as Paul echoed in his epistles?

You mentioned in essence "tolerating" a pastor's behavior; that people in church follow Christ and not the man. But, Paul said, "follow me as I follow Christ" (1 Corinthians 11:1) and "mark them that walk such" (Philippians 3:17) - which gives the implication that leaders are to be walking rightly before the brethren, as they are to be "ensamples" to the sheep (1 Peter 5:3). Yes, certainly all men fail, and all men sin, and oh, how we all need forgiveness by the blood of Christ, but it does not mean that it should be tolerated if it is affecting the brethren or misleading less mature brethren (those weak in the faith) by way of attitude or poor/weak/negligent Bible teaching.

Agreed, we ought not put any faith in humans or the "clergy." As a matter of fact, we know from Scripture that putting our trust in sinful and failing man is foolishness. However, God raises up men in churches to shepherd / oversee His flock and if they were raised up by God, they will have a good report, nay, they MUST.

Thank you so much brother for this wonderful discussion.

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

Yes that's happened to me...

The woman has told my. Mom that I'm a liar and not to believe anything I say

Asked if the spirit of Judas was in me..

Told me that me and my family were gonna be living in a shelter ( she prophesied that)

And I did nothing to this woman, in fact , I cleaned her house, and bathed her( when she was sick) ... My brother and I took the bus and train to be at the hospital she was at and hear her preach.. ..

And for her to treat me like crap was so unwarranted..

I asked God why that happened and I never got an answer..
Instead I got rapture dreams( me missing them BC of the anger I had/have for her m.. I asked god to take that away and nothing happened...)

And since then, my life I at a stand still ... And on top of that I'm losing my hair, I have alopecia... Its crazy, I have no friends,nothing..

And to make things worse, she's related to me and god keeps blessing her ... And its messed up..she could do what she did to me and God overlook her fault.

At least he could tell me why he allowed that to happen when I tried my best to please him...

I ask him if this is it for me, to be bald,friendless and continue to struggle iin poverty and college... And he never answers..ever..

I dont know why, I didnt do anything wrong concerning church and my pastor m.ex ept for the fact I decided enough was enough and left..

So I have issues trusting God...esp one that continues to reward a pastor for such a poor treatment of one of his sheep.. But I've heard many times on her that godd grace isnt fair and he can bestow as much as he wants to any person.

My pastor even told me god has mercy upon who he has mercy ...( concerning me when she rebuked me)

So as u can see I dont much faith in god for the reasons above.