Baptizing babies?

[tangled]

Yes or no?
Does it count?
Do they need to be knowingly baptized a second time?

 

[jpcedotal]

no and no

one can dedicate a child to God, though...but that is more of a ceremony for the parents to publicly tell others that they will do their best to raise the child in a Christian environment.

 

[ldelporte]

I agree with jpcedotal

A Baptism involves the decision of the one being baptized. An infant is certainly incapable of making that decision.

Also, I believe a baptism is the point at which we receive forgiveness for our sins (Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21). And, since I also believe that an infant is too young to be held accountable for sin, there is nothing yet to forgive the infant for.

 

[tangled]

hm....

 

[drich0150]

Yes or no?
Does it count?

Is it a command? No. Is it a sin to do so? also no. Does it count as part of the plan of salvation? no.

It is simply a gesture for those who believe that being born in of itself is a sin and that if a baby dies before he can elect to be baptized, that he will not be condemned to hell by this loop hole their doctrine of sin "god" or their version of Him is bound to oblige.

In reality what has happened is that a "religious leader" who claimed to speak for God created this loop hole through his interpretation of the scripture and instead of humbly admitting his error he pushed his doctrine to it's logical conclusion. In that anyone who is not baptized baby or not God is obligated to send to Hell.

Now the question becomes do you believe the original "religious/Christian leader" (and all who have subsequently followed him) are all without error, and God to be so flummoxed by this loop hole He failed to mention it in the bible? Or do you have the wherewithal to look to the bible and trust that it is the complete word of God, not needing a "religious leader" to add or take away scripture for you in order to create church sanctioned religious doctrine?

Again if you feel the need to baptize your baby then know it is not a sin to do so. Also know it God's economy it only amounts to little more than a religious gesture with it roots planted firmly in empty church tradition. (It is something we do for us and our personal piece of mind, not for God.)

 

[ebia]

Yes or no?
Does it count?

Yes. Did Moses leave the children on the egyptian side of the Red Sea or Joshua leave them on the wrong side of the Jordan? The people of God includes children or it's not authentically a people.

 

[tangled]

Is it a command? No. Is it a sin to do so? also no.

interesting points.

 

[tangled]

Thanks everyone.

 

[razeontherock]

There's also the angle of the individual being brought into God's protection. I can think of many instances where there is simply no other explanation, in my own life.

 

[tangled]

Is a person born into a Christian family automatically a Christian?

 

[razeontherock]

This question may not be so simple as it appears. You have a time period from birth to maturity, when an individual may well be Judged according to their parent's standing with God. Either that or universalism applies to minors, which seems an awfully shaky assertion to me.

Bottom line is being a parent is a tremendous responsibility, and even "fire insurance" as Christianity is often derided as being, should be considered. For that reason I think not Baptizing an infant is a mistake.

 

[ebia]

Is a person born into a Christian family automatically a Christian?

A baptized child growing up in the faith is a member of the people of God, yes.

Half the problem at least with modern Christianity is back-projecting western hyper-individualism onto the Judeo-Christian story.

 

[tangled]

Parenthood is pretty daunting...

 

[hedrick]

To the OP: The problem with your question is that there's a split among Christians, representing two different views of what Baptism means. Many feel strongly that it's a sign of repentance and faith, and only makes sense for adults. Others feel that it is a sign that we are part of God's people, and makes sense for anyone who is a member of the people, including infants growing up in a Christian family. I summarize this as the difference between our decision for God and God's decision for us.

You see, underlying is a difference in understanding of how God works. One view sees God as setting up a situation where people can be saved, but waiting for our decision. The other view sees salvation as primarily due to God's grace, which comes to us before we are able to respond.

You can find the basis for both views in Scripture. Many people will tell you that Scripture obviously supports one view or the other. I'll leave it to you whether you think one of them is right.

While most people give primacy to either our decision or God's grace, everyone does acknowledge the need for both in some form. So you might just want to consider the possibility that there is room for both infant baptism and believer's baptism.

 

[thomhughes]

I think people should come to their own conclusions, therefore baptising and subsequently educating children with a (rightly or wrongly) specific world view is wrong.

Although, as mentioned, the divide is there for all to see. Some strongly believe that baptising their children is the right approach, and some children may grow to be grateful for it, others may grow to resent their parents for doing so. There are plenty of variables.

In my view it's wrong, but there we go.

 

[tangled]

To the OP: The problem with your question is that there's a split among Christians, representing two different views of what Baptism means.

So you might just want to consider the possibility that there is room for both infant baptism and believer's baptism.

Hence the thread. Thanks. Gracias.
I was just interested in opinions.

 

[tangled]

I think people should come to their own conclusions, therefore baptising and subsequently educating children with a (rightly or wrongly) specific world view is wrong.

Although, as mentioned, the divide is there for all to see. Some strongly believe that baptising their children is the right approach, and some children may grow to be grateful for it, others may grow to resent their parents for doing so. There are plenty of variables.

In my view it's wrong, but there we go.

Thanks. Glad you're seeking.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yes or no?
Does it count?
Do they need to be knowingly baptized a second time?

Baptism is about God's grace, God's acceptance of sinners, and God coming to us in our helplessness to unite us by His grace and His power to His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. In Baptism we are united to Christ, made new creations, we are given justifying faith, and are brought into the Church, the Body of Christ.

Since Baptism is this and is for this purpose, why would we forbid anyone from Baptism?

Baptism isn't about us committing ourselves to Jesus, it's about Christ committing Himself to us, which He has done by His Incarnation, and His death and resurrection and His coming again.

Why should the infant be denied this? Be denied Jesus Christ Himself crucified and risen for him or her?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Dorothea]

Baptism is about God's grace, God's acceptance of sinners, and God coming to us in our helplessness to unite us by His grace and His power to His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. In Baptism we are united to Christ, made new creations, we are given justifying faith, and are brought into the Church, the Body of Christ.

Since Baptism is this and is for this purpose, why would we forbid anyone from Baptism?

Baptism isn't about us committing ourselves to Jesus, it's about Christ committing Himself to us, which He has done by His Incarnation, and His death and resurrection and His coming again.

Why should the infant be denied this? Be denied Jesus Christ Himself crucified and risen for him or her?

-CryptoLutheran

Agreed. New doctrines don't mean right or more enlightened to the truth.