Baptists: How can I disprove Purgatory to a Catholic?

[yogosans14]

They claim its in the Bible because they complied the Bible or something.

I need a good Baptist view on why Purgatory isnt a valid Biblical teaching.

 

[Legionwrex]

Is it even mentioned in the Bible?

 

[MrJim]

I suggest going to a site like Catholic Answers and getting the exact understanding they have of topic and collecting the bible references they will use and examine the contexts and work from there.

The problem you will have is that the bible isn't the only "final authority" they recognize and that really becomes the "argument" in any baptist/catholic debate.

 

[GomesDusty]

Like MrJim said, Catholics value the Bible and tradition. Purgatory is not in the Bible. It might be in the Apocrypha though. Regardless, some highly esteem the Catholic tradition.

Challenge them that it's not in the Bible, and see their response.

 

[BBAS 64]

The roman catholic has the duty to positively prove the existence, you can not prove a negative.

 

[sisgood]

... The sarcastic little creaton in me would like you to remind your Catholic friend alllll about how by only reading in Italian, by having a religion based more on works than faith, by baptising babies and claiming they have fire insurance, and a host of other little things, they made it very difficult for most people in the middle ages to be mature, born again believers. And then tell them that the idea of purgatory was born around the time all this was going on... and the whole get out of purgatory by giving lotza money to the church idea.

The helper in me is telling you to remind them whats in the bible and what isn't and to use the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man to clarify that said rich man was in a hellish environment and had no personal hope of working his way out.

Hope this helps! Please excuse the sarcastic creaton, she'd like to go back in time and murder some of the clurgy from back then.

 

[Metal Minister]

They claim its in the Bible because they complied the Bible or something.

I need a good Baptist view on why Purgatory isnt a valid Biblical teaching.

The onus is on them to prove purgatory exists. They'll try to use certain verses (like 1 Corinthians 3:13-15) and say they prove it, but once you find the real meaning, you'll be able to convey it to them.

 

[willlowbee]

Is it even mentioned in the Bible?

Purgatory

 

[Metal Minister]

Purgatory

None of those, especially when placed in context, is talking about purgatory. If you'd like, I'll write up an exposition of each of those verses, so you'll know what they mean. Just lemme know, because it will take time, and I'd hate to waste it, if you're not interested.

 

[Iosias]

Why not get clued up on what Catholics believe by reading their Catechism. They will also probably discuss it at Called to Communion - Catholic and Reformed Dialogue

 

[Iosias]

It might be in the Apocrypha though.

Which Catholics accept as being the Bible, so perhaps you ought begin with the canon question?

 

[Skala]

They claim its in the Bible because they complied the Bible or something.

I need a good Baptist view on why Purgatory isnt a valid Biblical teaching.

You can't disprove something that doesn't exist.

Not a single thing about purgatory in the Bible. Therefore, you can't point them to the Bible to disprove purgatory - cuz it doesn't say anything about it!

That being said, you can ask them how long they'd be a Catholic if purgatory didn't exist. You see, Purgatory is the "safety net" for Catholicism. Without purgatory, Catholicism is a hard sell. They rely on purgatory to catch them like a safety net and cleanse all their sins. otherwise they'd go straight to hell since Jesus alone wasn't sufficient to save them. (they believe that salvation is by Jesus + their own efforts). Every Catholic knows that they totally fail in their own efforts to achieve salvation, so they know that purgatory is mandatory if anyone is to end up in heaven.

Take away purgatory and it's pretty hard to convince someone to be a Catholic.

 

[Metal Minister]

You can't disprove something that doesn't exist.

Not a single thing about purgatory in the Bible. Therefore, you can't point them to the Bible to disprove purgatory - cuz it doesn't say anything about it!

That being said, you can ask them how long they'd be a Catholic if purgatory didn't exist. You see, Purgatory is the "safety net" for Catholicism. Without purgatory, Catholicism is a hard sell. They rely on purgatory to catch them like a safety net and cleanse all their sins. otherwise they'd go straight to hell since Jesus alone wasn't sufficient to save them. (they believe that salvation is by Jesus + their own efforts). Every Catholic knows that they totally fail in their own efforts to achieve salvation, so they know that purgatory is mandatory if anyone is to end up in heaven.

Take away purgatory and it's pretty hard to convince someone to be a Catholic.

^^^This.

 

[Keachian]

Which Catholics accept as being the Bible, so perhaps you ought begin with the canon question?

But even in the Apocrypha the existence of any text to support Purgatory is non-existent as evidenced by the lack of Purgatory from Eastern Christianity. The closest thing is Aerial Toll Houses which is incredibly different and just as baseless from Scripture.

 

[BlueLioness]

You are a Baptist? So am I, I am surprised that they actually have a thread here for us. Being that I realized that Catholics out-numbered the Protestants.

 

[GenetoJean]

I found this:

Where is Purgatory in the Bible? - About Catholics

At least you can understand where they get the belief and discuss what they truly believe.

 

[BlueLioness]

They claim its in the Bible because they complied the Bible or something.

I need a good Baptist view on why Purgatory isnt a valid Biblical teaching.

You are right that we don't believe in purgatory, but I've never been really sure about how to disprove that to a Catholic.

I am not ashamed of anything I've just said. I am proud of my heritage.

 

[BlueLioness]

But even in the Apocrypha the existence of any text to support Purgatory is non-existent as evidenced by the lack of Purgatory from Eastern Christianity. The closest thing is Aerial Toll Houses which is incredibly different and just as baseless from Scripture.

Oh.

 

[FreedByte]

You can't disprove something that doesn't exist.

Not a single thing about purgatory in the Bible. Therefore, you can't point them to the Bible to disprove purgatory - cuz it doesn't say anything about it!

The question here is not so much about proof as it is about probability. We as Christians should not hold the belief that we can prove the existence of God (otherwise we'd be verging on gnosticism and deism, two heresies), and therefore debating anything based on mutual belief in something is not a matter of proof. What it then becomes is an historical analysis of a given doctrine based on a mutual belief in the divinity of Christ.

That being said, you can ask them how long they'd be a Catholic if purgatory didn't exist. You see, Purgatory is the "safety net" for Catholicism. Without purgatory, Catholicism is a hard sell. They rely on purgatory to catch them like a safety net and cleanse all their sins. otherwise they'd go straight to hell since Jesus alone wasn't sufficient to save them. (they believe that salvation is by Jesus + their own efforts). Every Catholic knows that they totally fail in their own efforts to achieve salvation, so they know that purgatory is mandatory if anyone is to end up in heaven.

If this is true than what do you make of the Eastern Orthodox, who don't have purgatory but differ soteriologically to protestants?

Also, purgatory in the RC view is more of a final purification than salvation itself. A Catholic unrepentant of a mortal sin, as far as I understand, goes to hell in the RC view.

 

[Bluelion]

You will never disprove it to some one who believes that. They will only except if the bible says no its not there, and the bible does not say that.

Don't waste your time with things that do not matter any way. I would suggest focusing on salvation, grace and faith and love.