Baptists and the Virign Mary.

[RaylightI]

I understand the Baptist understanding and belief about the Virgin Mary. But what I don't understand is some of the hostility toward the Virgin Mary from some baptists and other Evangelical protestant christians.

Does the Baptist theology justify the hostility and sometimes the phobia that is among some Baptists toward the Virgin Mary ?

 

[Avid]

There is no hostility toward the virgin Mary. She was a virgin when she conceived our LORD Jesus Christ. She was the right choice by God for this, and that was for many reasons. Are you confused because others believe that SHE was conceived by a virgin, and Baptists do not? Is that what you believe?

Do you think she was a virgin all her life? Are you aware she had other children later? ( Acts 1:14)

Mary, the mother of Jesus, was one of the best people to live, and one of the best people who lived in her time. However, she is NOT to be worshiped. Is that where the confusion arises? do you think she should be worshiped? Do you think people should pray to her?

 

[RaylightI]

There is no hostility toward the virgin Mary. She was a virgin when she conceived our LORD Jesus Christ. She was the right choice by God for this, and that was for many reasons. Are you confused because others believe that SHE was conceived by a virgin, and Baptists do not? Is that what you believe?

Do you think she was a virgin all her life? Are you aware she had other children later? ( Acts 1:14)

Mary, the mother of Jesus, was one of the best people top live, and one of the best people who lived in her time. However, she is NOT to be worshiped. Is that where the confusion arises? do you think she should be worshiped? Do you think people should pray to her?

It is naive of anyone to think that Catholics worship the Virgin Mary. Even though I'm not Catholic, I do pray to the Virgin Mary but not in the way I pray to God. I pray the rosary and I honor her because Christ's body is from her body.

When I say some Baptists are hostile toward the Virgin Mary I mean that they avoid any mention of her during sermon or even any celebration of her. Destroying any statue of hers, just like what ISIS are doing. That what I mean by hostility toward the Virgin Mary. I never said that not praying to the Virgin Mary is hostility, in the end God is above all and first of all. Not praying to the Virgin Mary doesn't make you any less Christian. I feel hostility in your comment which you somehow are accusing me of worshiping the Virgin Mary.

Thank you answering anyway.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

I understand the Baptist understanding and belief about the Virgin Mary. But what I don't understand is some of the hostility toward the Virgin Mary from some baptists and other Evangelical protestant christians.

Does the Baptist theology justify the hostility and sometimes the phobia that is among some Baptists toward the Virgin Mary ?

Why would anybody be phobic toward Mary? She died for her sin the same as we die for ours, and she is gone to be with the Lord in heaven and she bows her knees at the sound of His name the same as we who are saved from Hell now will forever serve the Lord like Mary does in heaven. . Mary is nobody to be afraid of any more than Santa Clause should be feared.

 

[mikedsjr]

Rayloght, I'm sensing hostility towards Baptist who don't except your theology. There are different denominations for a reasons. There is no foundation in Scripture for praying to her.

There is a tendency, due to the extremes on the side your on, that cause Baptist not to speak more openly of respect towards Mary, but bowing down to her, we will not.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

It is naive of anyone to think that Catholics worship the Virgin Mary. Even though I'm not Catholic, I do pray to the Virgin Mary but not in the way I pray to God. I pray the rosary and I honor her because Christ's body is from her body.

When I say some Baptists are hostile toward the Virgin Mary I mean that they avoid any mention of her during sermon or even any celebration of her. Destroying any statue of hers, just like what ISIS are doing. That what I mean by hostility toward the Virgin Mary. I never said that not praying to the Virgin Mary is hostility, in the end God is above all and first of all. Not praying to the Virgin Mary doesn't make you any less Christian. I feel hostility in your comment which you somehow are accusing me of worshiping the Virgin Mary.



Thank you answering anyway.

Mary is a beloved and departed sister in Christ who I expect to see and talk with in heaven. I love all of my brothers and sisters in Christ, even the ones I never knew personally like Mary. I know there have been a lot of manifestations by lying spirits who claim to be Mary the Mother of God in the world. That's not Mary the mother of Jesus. Mary the mother of Jesus was a sinner like me, saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, and now she served Him in heaven. She is my sister. The Mary that appears in apparitions or "miracles" after she died for her sins is a trick of the devil. That's what Baptists generally believe.

. Just because I took a baseball bat to the head of the Mary statue that was in my back yard when I bought my house does not mean I am hostile toward Mary who is in heaven serving God and bowing to Jesus Christ like I will be soon. All it meant when I knocked the block off of that statue is that I despise idolatry, and I wanted it to make it clear to any devils attached to that idol that they are no longer welcome on the property God gave me authority over and that idol lost any authority ascribed to it by the former owners of my property. I don't want any "Mary" apparitions appearing in my back yard. Every broken piece of that idol went to the dump where it belongs. Mary is a beloved sister in Christ, saved from her sins by the blood of God in Jesus Christ who bought me with His blood and owns me and gives me eternal life now and forever, so I expect I will get to sit down with Mary someday in heaven and hear her stories of being saved from her sin by the Son of God she was chosen to for God to use to prepare a body for His Son, and I expect she will listen to my stories of being saved by the blood of God and saved from Hell as the Savior has given me eternal life and it's His gift to me now and forever. Amen.

 

[Avid]

It is naive of anyone to think that Catholics worship the Virgin Mary. Even though I'm not Catholic, I do pray to the Virgin Mary but not in the way I pray to God. I pray the rosary and I honor her because Christ's body is from her body...

Do you suggest that Baptists should do this? You realize that to suggest that we should is against the rules of this website?

When I say some Baptists are hostile toward the Virgin Mary I mean that they avoid any mention of her during sermon or even any celebration of her. Destroying any statue of hers, just like what ISIS are doing...

So these statues of "Mary" belong to her? Do you pray in front of these things?

Exodus 20
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.​

I have a neighbor that had something like this in his yard. I never touched the thing, though I would cut his grass for him when he was out of town. Had I bought a house like that, I would have done as St.Joe, and destroyed it. That is NOT the same as ISIS is doing...

I feel hostility in your comment which you somehow are accusing me of worshiping the Virgin Mary...

Here is why you confuse the issue. If someone asks you a question to qualify your comment, you consider it hostility. This has no place here. How is asking what you think ACCUSING you?

 

[Avid]

It is naive of anyone to think that Catholics worship the Virgin Mary. Even though I'm not Catholic, I do pray to the Virgin Mary but not in the way I pray to God. I pray the rosary and I honor her because Christ's body is from her body...

You state that you are not Catholic. Why do you pray to a deceased person if you are not Catholic? What do you expect that to accomplish for you?

I had asked a few other questions as well, and only got answers for one or two.

... others believe that SHE was conceived by a virgin, and Baptists do not? Is that what you believe?

I had asked if you believe this as do other people.

... Do you think she was a virgin all her life? Are you aware she had other children later? ( Acts 1:14)

I asked what you thought about this issue.

... Mary, ... she is NOT to be worshiped. Is that where the confusion arises? do you think she should be worshiped?

What is praying if not a form of worship? You expect something to happen, either you give some glory to Mary from your prayers, or you expect her to accomplish something for you. What is the goal and intent of this prayer you make to Mary?

... Do you think people should pray to her?

Seems we got an affirmative answer to this.

 

[classicalhero]

It is naive of anyone to think that Catholics worship the Virgin Mary. Even though I'm not Catholic, I do pray to the Virgin Mary but not in the way I pray to God. I pray the rosary and I honor her because Christ's body is from her body.

The bit in bold is a problem we have because the Bible says we should only pray to God and no one else. But Mary was only a virigin when Jesus was born. It would be very un-Jewish of her not to have children since that is how Jews viewed being blessed by God if they were a woman, by having lots of children. It would be against the culture for Mary to remain a virgin. I know that my Pastor has preached messages about Mary but the only praise we give her is that she obeyed God under extremely difficult circumstances, being found pregnant before having sex with her husband. Rarely do you see Go use angels to speak to humans, but this was of an utmost importance because things would have been different without divine intervention.

 

[twin1954]

What Roman Catholics say they believe and what is actually practiced are two different things. They build their argument around the use of one word but in reality they do worship her as co-redemptrix with the Lord Jesus Christ. The practice of praying to Mary, as well as other saints, started out as a way to get out of purgatory. Which of course is unbiblical. It morphed into worship and relies on her position of being the mother of God. Just writing that makes me shiver because it is blasphemous.

Though the selling of indulgences is not usually practiced any more you can still buy the merit of Mary or the Saints to get someone out of purgatory. It is now done by the priest coercing a dying congregant to will all their estate to the church.

Now we recognize that in the scheme of God throughout history she is blessed above all women for her being used of God to bring the Lord Jesus into the world as Savior. What we do not do is elevate her above what she was and we do not venerate her above what she deserves.

 

[RaylightI]

I didn't know that by asking the question of does the Baptist theology justify the hostility toward the Virgin Mary, I will open the gates for anti-Catholic comments and personal attacks and accusation toward me.

@ Avid, I want to reply to one accusation that surprised me, you claimed that I ask Baptists to pray to the Virgin Mary and then trying to "scare' me by telling me this is against the forum rules. Maybe you didn't notice or ignored the line when I said " That what I mean by hostility toward the Virgin Mary. I never said that not praying to the Virgin Mary is hostility, in the end God is above all and first of all. Not praying to the Virgin Mary doesn't make you any less Christian."

Nevertheless, my thanks goes to the members who actually answered the question, but I have no thanks to give to any member who tried to pull me into a childish argument and accusations, for they didn't contribute to the thread other than confirming what I already heard and thought about the Baptist theology and its hostility.

God bless.

 

[classicalhero]

We are hostile to the concept of Mary being a Virgin for perputuity because it is something doesn't for God to be manifest in the flesh. go with the Bible. It is an unbiblical wording that shouldn't belong. Just like how Catholics call Mary "The Mother of God", when all all she was the chosen vessel. But I think the main problem is the fact the way Catholics treat Mary is far to similar to the various Mother-Son Cults of the pagan societies where they would worship "The Queen of heaven". Look that up in the Bible to see what they did. Or look for Tammuz also. Just have a look at the Rosary and it is the similar type of chanting they would do for the Mother of the Mother-Son cults

 

[SaintJoeNow]

my questions and comments seem to be being ignored by the endorser of praying to Mary, so I'll post some again.....

I think it's childish to call people "phobic" when they do not agree to the Catholic teaching of Mary being the Mother of God or Queen of Heaven or somebody we should pray to..........but maybe there truly is some cases of "MARY PHOBIA", so I'm going to try to help those people is they are reading here. I think that is the intent of the OP and the thread, trying to show people they need fear Mary not at all and they don't have to be afraid of her just because the Pope said she is boss of Jesus.

Why would anybody be phobic toward Mary? She died for her sin the same as we die for ours, and she is gone to be with the Lord in heaven and she bows her knees at the sound of His name the same as we who are saved from Hell now will forever serve the Lord like Mary does in heaven. . Mary is nobody to be afraid of any more than Santa Clause should be feared.

In Islam, Mohammed supposedly tells Jesus what to do. In Catholicism, Mary supposedly tells Jesus what to do. I have heard something about Islam having been covertly started by the Vatican as a tool by which the high-ups among those who think they will rule and own the world will wipe out a large percentage of the world population while a one-world dictator is placed in power. I have not researched the subject, but knowing how the Catholic church has always sought dominion over every piece of land and every person they can bring into subjection, it would not surprise me at all to be true. The only thing in the world slowing them down is Christians. Catholic Christians don't realize that by elevating Mary as an idol, they are fueling the fire that is going to devour the world.

 

[twin1954]

my questions and comments seem to be being ignored by the endorser of praying to Mary, so I'll post some again.....

I think it's childish to call people "phobic" when they do not agree to the Catholic teaching of Mary being the Mother of God or Queen of Heaven or somebody we should pray to..........but maybe there truly is some cases of "MARY PHOBIA", so I'm going to try to help those people is they are reading here. I think that is the intent of the OP and the thread, trying to show people they need fear Mary not at all and they don't have to be afraid of her just because the Pope said she is boss of Jesus.

Why would anybody be phobic toward Mary? She died for her sin the same as we die for ours, and she is gone to be with the Lord in heaven and she bows her knees at the sound of His name the same as we who are saved from Hell now will forever serve the Lord like Mary does in heaven. . Mary is nobody to be afraid of any more than Santa Clause should be feared.

I have to ask what do you mean that she died for her sins?

 

[Avid]

... When I say some Baptists are hostile toward the Virgin Mary I mean that they avoid any mention of her during sermon or even any celebration of her. Destroying any statue of hers, just like what ISIS are doing. That what I mean by hostility toward the Virgin Mary...

This is what I reference. What Baptists are doing what ISIS is doing? What Baptist Church have you spent time in, that does not say that Mary was blessed by what God did by her?

Why does a question about what you believe get interpreted as hostile?

 

[Avid]

... I have no thanks to give to any member who tried to pull me into a childish argument and accusations, for they didn't contribute to the thread other than confirming what I already heard and thought about the Baptist theology and its hostility...

You have misread concern, and guarding against error, with hostility. Then, you have taken questions directed at your error, and proclaimed them as hostility toward Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ our LORD. God blessed Mary, and we honor her for the difficult and demanding life she led. That does not equate to worship, and praying to her is NOT in order.

All the things you are saying are accusations, but I have not accused you. I have asked questions. I have had Roman Catholics affirm they do not pray to Mary as the mother of God. You say you are NOT Catholic, but you do. That brings many questions to mind!

 

[Pedrito]

In Reply #14, twin1954 asked:

I have to ask what do you mean that she died for her sins?

She died for her own sins, just like Adam and all his posterity.

“The wages of sin is death...” Romans 6:23

 

[twin1954]

In Reply #14, twin1954 asked:



She died for her own sins, just like Adam and all his posterity.

“The wages of sin is death...” Romans 6:23

I would disagree. Mary was, I have no doubt, a believer. As such the payment of her sins was the death of the Lord Jesus Christ. She died because sin has corrupted all mortal bodies and the flesh must die but she didn't die for her sins. To say that implies that her death was a penalty for her sins and that is against the truth of the Gospel. Does that make sense?

 

[SaintJoeNow]

I would disagree. Mary was, I have no doubt, a believer. As such the payment of her sins was the death of the Lord Jesus Christ. She died because sin has corrupted all mortal bodies and the flesh must die but she didn't die for her sins. To say that implies that her death was a penalty for her sins and that is against the truth of the Gospel. Does that make sense?

Not really. The wages of sin is death, does that not mean it is the penalty we get? When God told Adam he would die the day he ate of the forbidden fruit, was God not warning of the penalty of sinning? The soul that sins shall surely die. Death passed on all for al have sinned. The penalty is Hell. Mary was saved from Hell but she died because she was a sinner the same as you and me. Jesus paid for Mary's sins to save her from paying in Hell fire forever because He as God was the only one who could pay for somebody else's sin by His death because He had no sin of HIs own.

You are trying to split more hairs than need to be split in the discussion and not doing a good job of splitting them.

 

[twin1954]

Not really. The wages of sin is death, does that not mean it is the penalty we get?

No it means that is the result of sin but not the penalty. Physical death is due to the corrupt nature of the body. It is subject to decay and sickness and age because of the sin of Adam but the penalty of sin is spiritual death.

When God told Adam he would die the day he ate of the forbidden fruit, was God not warning of the penalty of sinning?

How long did Adam live after the Fall? He lived 930 years in all but we are not sure how many years he lived after the fall but we do know that he was 130 when Seth was born so we can go from there. Now as you said God told Adam that he would die in the day that he fell. He did of course. He died spiritually. That was part of the penalty of sin the second death in eternal damnation being the other part.

The soul that sins shall surely die. Death passed on all for al have sinned. The penalty is Hell.

Exactly.

Mary was saved from Hell but she died because she was a sinner the same as you and me.

Again true.

Jesus paid for Mary's sins to save her from paying in Hell fire forever because He as God was the only one who could pay for somebody else's sin by His death because He had no sin of HIs own.

True as well but her death was not the penalty for her sin it was the natural outcome of sin in physical reality. Christ bore the penalty for her sin.

You are trying to split more hairs than need to be split in the discussion and not doing a good job of splitting them.

Not splitting hairs just being precise in how things are spoken and understood. Your words betray your theology and lack of understanding in the Gospel. What you have said has caused many to have no peace because they think that even though Christ bore the penalty for their sin they still have to bear it as well. For the believer there is no sting in physical death because it isn't a penalty it is a reward.