Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
No offense, but that is a classic argument that has been used in centuries past to justify the supposed superiority of men. I asked why God created woman as the supposed "weaker vessel", not why Eve sinned first.It is very clear in the Scriptures that Eve was deceived not Adam. The Serpent beguiled Eve but he didn't beguile Adam. Adam was a federal head of all that would be born by him. He represented all of the human race before God. Rom. 5 If Eve had eaten of the fruit and Adam had not we would all be in paradise because nothing would have been lost but Eve. Eve was deceived but Adam wasn't. Adam went into sin with his eyes wide open. He wanted Eve more than he wanted God.
Now part of the curse on Eve, and all women by her, is that her husband will rule over her. Gen, 3:17?
You assume far too much. You assume I am arguing that men are superior to women and I am not. I suspect no argument will suffice to convince you as you seem to have your mind made up. If you will not bow to Scripture I will not try to convince you by any other argument because it is pointless. When I choose to debate I don't choose to debate a brick wall.No offense, but that is a classic argument that has been used in centuries past to justify the supposed superiority of men. I asked why God created woman as the supposed "weaker vessel", not why Eve sinned first.
So then the Bible is bogus?
You are a different individual, but we are the same gender, therefore we serve the same purpose.
God has made the woman the weaker vessel for a purpose. It might be that women are weaker because God's plan is for the two together to be stronger or it might be for a reason still unknown to us. Either way, God has made women that way and has placed man in a position of authority over women.
Yes you are, when you say that women are not the weaker vessel and the Bible says they are.
Mutual submission is necessary for a relationship, but you deny any authority of man over the woman even though this is what the Bible clearly states.
It is clear that the Bible compares the husband and wife relationship to that of Christ and His Bride the church. Which came first? God patterned the husband/wife relationship after the coming relationship of Christ and the church. That is why the Bible compares these.
No, you are assuming too much. I am not saying that that was your argument, I was saying that your argument was one that had been used for centuries to justify the belief that men are better than women.You assume far too much. You assume I am arguing that men are superior to women and I am not. I suspect no argument will suffice to convince you as you seem to have your mind made up. If you will not bow to Scripture I will not try to convince you by any other argument because it is pointless. When I choose to debate I don't choose to debate a brick wall.
I'm also interested in people's opinions on the above. So far no one has addressed it.My uncle, who is our preacher, made a very good point in a sermon. I won't be able to do his point any justice as I can't remember exactly how he put it, but he said that because of woman being created last and being in the submissive role, God probably had a greater purpose for us. That's not to say that He favors us more, but that we had a greater role to fulfill.
It should also be mentioned that Jesus said that whoever is first is last, and whoever is last is first in Heaven. It's interesting that those that were more meek and lowly were favored by God. I think women pretty much fill that bill. JMO.
That was a great post. Thanks for that.I think that scripture is sufficiently clear on the subject. Wives are to submit to their husbands as head of the 'one flesh' which emerges from the union of marriage - not necessarily silently obidient, but respectful of God's will as reflected by their husband. Husbands are to love the wives as Christ loves the Church, not using authority as a club - but being judicious in authority and serving the needs of his wife properly. Both can err from their proper role, but the error of the husband does not excuse the error of the wife, nor does the error of the wife excuse the error of the husband. Both must strive to live up to scripture, and neither is given a task which comes easily, or is without its proper reward.
And yes, women are very obviously physically weaker than men. That doesn't mean less smart, just weaker. Putting aside the modern era, that meant that men in a very literal way supported their wives and children, since physical toil was the rule of how people got their sustainance from the earth. In the modern era, technology has allowed us to 'divorce' provision from physical strength, which has led to some confusion IMO as to the straightforward meaning of the scriptures.
And, wow, I don't think modern people even pause to consider how much work went into running a household before the advent of modern technology like washing machines, microwaves, etc...; even the simple oven is an unprecidented historical blessing. When modern feminists dismiss the type of toil which went into being 'just' a homemaker and mother, I am frankly baffled. Historically, running a household with love and efficiency was a truely worthy calling, as it is today.
BTW - I don't care for feminism at all. Even tho you embrace a softer version, the depth of filth and intellectual dishonesty which has come from that particular school of thought is staggering. I equally loathe the dimishment of my sisters in Christ by any man or woman. IMO, feminism has far more diminished women by denying that the worth of women is relative to men. Believe me when I say, men absolutely NEED women too - each sex has worth which is relative to the other, intrinsically. But we are not the same - men have their proper sphere and so do women.
Wives are to submit to their husbands as head of the 'one flesh' which emerges from the union of marriage - not necessarily silently obidient, but respectful of God's will as reflected by their husband
Both can err from their proper role, but the error of the husband does not excuse the error of the wife, nor does the error of the wife excuse the error of the husband.
And yes, women are very obviously physically weaker than men.
And, wow, I don't think modern people even pause to consider how much work went into running a household before the advent of modern technology like washing machines, microwaves, etc...; even the simple oven is an unprecidented historical blessing. When modern feminists dismiss the type of toil which went into being 'just' a homemaker and mother, I am frankly baffled. Historically, running a household with love and efficiency was a truely worthy calling, as it is today.
the depth of filth and intellectual dishonesty which has come from that particular school of thought is staggering.
I equally loathe the dimishment of my sisters in Christ by any man or woman. IMO, feminism has far more diminished women by denying that the worth of women is relative to men.
I don't know what is meant by "weaker vessel" (does the Bible even use that terminology?), but I do agree that we are physically weaker than men. However, mentally, emotionally and spiritually I believe we are the same.Of course, claims that women are the "weaker vessel" are coming from some of the men in this thread - not the women. I'd be willing to bet that those men would change their minds about women being "weaker vessels" if they experienced pregnancy and labor first hand.
"weaker vessel" (does the Bible even use that terminology?)
but I do agree that we are physically weaker than men.
However, mentally, emotionally and spiritually I believe we are the same.
One thing I have noticed is that where men are physically strong, women are mentally and emotionally strong. One's strengths make up for the other's weaknesses. It's amazing how God designed it.
I would disagree. I still cite menstruation, pregnancy and labor as evidence that women are actually stronger than men in some ways.
ufff. a higher pain threshold does not make women better at building houses, esp. w/o modern technology (QED).
I agree. That's why we see women disproportionately asked to submit when two-way accountability and submission happens in all marriages.I think the bent of scripture very much reflects the time period
Again: I thought you just finished telling us that it takes a lot of work and effort to maintain a house.his may well have inspired Paul's writing to not hold women in distain simply because their physical capacity for work was lesser
I don't know. What is the point you're trying to make with the "saved by childbirth" argument?In fact, why do you think he includes the verse about childbirth, if not to put the proper perspective on the relationship between men and women?
Of course, claims that women are the "weaker vessel" are coming from some of the men in this thread - not the women. I'd be willing to bet that those men would change their minds about women being "weaker vessels" if they experienced pregnancy and labor first hand.
When you add up all the work women face at home with pregnancy, labor, menstruation and menopause, women begin to seem less and less like the "weaker vessel". One has to have a strong constitution to endure all of that.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?