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Keachian

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The point from wich you are trying to avoid is the absolute lack of scriptural support on the "christian tithe". Does somebody know even a single verse in wich the christian tithe can be soported as a scriptural doctrine principle or practice?

I Corinthians 16, II Corinthians 8, I Corinthians 9:7ff
 
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Keachian

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I am so sorry you dont know of any scripture saying that our mission is to go to the World, make discciples and baptice them. So sorry.

My objection is that you are treating it as if mission excludes charity, I know where we get a theology of mission from, I don't understand where you get the exclusion of charity from mission, do you want to give me reference for that?
 
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Z

Zeleste

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I Corinthians 16, II Corinthians 8, I Corinthians 9:7ff
I Corinthians 16
The Collection for the Saints
1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. 3And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. 4And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.
Paul's Plans for Travel
(Romans 15:23-33)
5Now I will come unto you, when I shall pass through Macedonia: for I do pass through Macedonia. 6And it may be that I will abide, yea, and winter with you, that ye may bring me on my journey whithersoever I go. 7For I will not see you now by the way; but I trust to tarry a while with you, if the Lord permit. 8But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost. 9For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and there are many adversaries.
Timothy Commended
10Now if Timotheus come, see that he may be with you without fear: for he worketh the work of the Lord, as I also do. 11Let no man therefore despise him: but conduct him forth in peace, that he may come unto me: for I look for him with the brethren.
12As touching our brother Apollos, I greatly desired him to come unto you with the brethren: but his will was not at all to come at this time; but he will come when he shall have convenient time.
Concluding Exhortations
13Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong. 14Let all your things be done with charity.
15I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,) 16That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboureth. 17I am glad of the coming of Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus: for that which was lacking on your part they have supplied. 18For they have refreshed my spirit and yours: therefore acknowledge ye them that are such.
Paul's Final Greetings
(2 Thessalonians 3:16-18)
19The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house. 20All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss.
21The salutation of me Paul with mine own hand. 22If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha. 23The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. 24My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. Amen. {The first epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi by Stephanas, and Fortunatus, and Achaicus, and Timotheus.

Paul is NOT talking of tithe. Clearly is not about tithe. As I am saying and you dont get it; help for others than those of the local congregation is something exceptional. Here there is a cllect of founds to help the church in Jerusalem. It was an exceptional situation. Pual did organice a collect that were not done before the situation aroused. And the collet did finish as paul took it to Jerusalem. It was a practice isolated in time.



II Corinthians 8
Generosity Commended
1Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia; 2How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality. 3For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves; 4Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints. 5And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God. 6Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.
7Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also. 8I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.
Christ's Example
9For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich. 10And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago. 11Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have. 12For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not. 13For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: 14But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: 15As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.
Titus Commended
(Titus 1:1-4)
16But thanks be to God, which put the same earnest care into the heart of Titus for you. 17For indeed he accepted the exhortation; but being more forward, of his own accord he went unto you. 18And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise is in the gospel throughout all the churches; 19And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind: 20Avoiding this, that no man should blame us in this abundance which is administered by us: 21Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men. 22And we have sent with them our brother, whom we have oftentimes proved diligent in many things, but now much more diligent, upon the great confidence which I have in you. 23Whether any do inquire of Titus, he is my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren be inquired of, they are the messengers of the churches, and the glory of Christ. 24Wherefore shew ye to them, and before the churches, the proof of your love, and of our boasting on your behalf.

NOT talking of tithe


I Corinthians 9:7ff
7Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

I can not imagine where do you read "tithe"

IT IS CLAER THAT CHRISTIANS HAVE COLLECTED A GOOD LIST OF TEXTS THAT CAN USE FOR MISSTEACHING THE TITHE. THE ABOVE ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF TRICKY TEACHING.
 
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Keachian

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I can not imagine where do you read "tithe"

IT IS CLAER THAT CHRISTIANS HAVE COLLECTED A GOOD LIST OF TEXTS THAT CAN USE FOR MISSTEACHING THE TITHE. THE ABOVE ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF TRICKY TEACHING.

Are you just going to go off on your high and mighty horse or do you seek to understand what I mean by tithe, you have a reputation for bombast and not much sense, quibbling over the use of words especially when your use of the word is at odds with what it has come to mean over usage.

Tithing is not an obligation and if you go to a Church that teaches it as an obligation they are wrong!

Tithing as it has come to mean is a willing and regular giving amount normally around 10% of a Church member's income to cover the costs of running the Church, including paying the pastors and teachers, as Paul says is their right in I Co 9:7ff. It is by no means mandatory and should only be strongly encouraged among the members, nonmembers give offerings and any over and above what the member has decided in their heart to give on a regular basis (2 Cor 9:7) is also considered an offering
 
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Zeleste

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Baptist tithe is an obligation.
Christian tithe has not scriptural support.
 
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Zeleste

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Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination teaches obligatory tithing
 
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Zeleste

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BE AWARE
this a baptist secction of the CF, and baptist practice of tithe is not in obedience or in giving back to God; it is (as show in the first posts) a financial solution.

BE AWARE
this a baptist secction of the CF, and baptist practice of tithe is not in obedience or in giving back to God; it is (as show in the first posts) a financial solution
 
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Zeleste

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If you have scripture showing tithing is sinful ect then type away, Nothing in CF rules say Baptists have to tithe or don't have to so you are good to go

yes
 
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BeeWrangler

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Tithe was prohibited for the Holy Spirit to christian. Tithing is desobedience to the Holy Spirit.
To tithe is to observ the Law, and any attempt to observ the Law leads to failure wich is sin.

There you go Phoenixdem, right out of the book of Zeleste
 
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phoenixdem

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Tithe was prohibited for the Holy Spirit to christian. Tithing is desobedience to the Holy Spirit.
To tithe is to observ the Law, and any attempt to observ the Law leads to failure wich is sin.

Christians don't need to observe the law for purposes of salvation. Christians no longer come under the law, but that isn't getting the bills paid including paying the preacher and paying the bills necessary to maintain the church. It also doesn't send money to missionaries.

If you really believe that paying the bills is sinful, I guess that you will have do what you believe is right. I have never run into anyone who doesn't help maintain the church and the missionaries because they believe doing so is sinful.
 
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Zeleste

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Paul teached that getting back under the Law by own will is taking us from the grace and makes the cross useless.
You say that because the church need money and dont trust in God providing; then the christians have to go back under the Law.
And that is exactly the baptist doctrine. Tithe is a good financial solution despite all the terrible concecuences.
 
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Keachian

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Tithe was prohibited for the Holy Spirit to christian. Tithing is desobedience to the Holy Spirit.
To tithe is to observ the Law, and any attempt to observ the Law leads to failure wich is sin.

As you have pointed out previously in the thread because the current observance does not line up with what the Biblical tithe is they shouldn't be called the tithe. Now if what we are doing does not line up with the Law and we acknowledge said fact then how on earth are we attempting to observe the Law?
 
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Zeleste

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The election of the name "tithe" is not an accident and is not a coinsidence. The selection of the name "tithe" is for the christians to make the conection with the tithe mentioned in the Bible. Then, tithe is teach in basis of biblical texts. otherwise, it is impossible to talk of thithe without refering to the OT Law.

Brother tithe beacuse Moses commanded to tithe, because Abraham did tithe as well of Jacob. Brother tithe because of Malachi. Brother tithe because Jesus teached to tithe as the phariseas were doing.

At the end of the day it doesnt matter if Jesus actually did teach against tithe. It dont matter if malachi dont afact us christians. It dont matter if actualli Jacob did never tithe, nor were tithing Abraham.

At the end of the day it makes no difference if the Law tithe was not 10% of the income. What it matters is what christians believe. Christians believe that Moses stablished a 10% of the inome, and that Jesus reinforced that command.

Brother have faith (wrong but sincerely believing) that they are observing the Law. And in their hart they are getting back to the Law.
 
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phoenixdem

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God does provide, through the members of the church. How do you see God providing for the needs of the church? For What do you think the members of the church should be responsible?

I can imagine what you will think about this, but at my church the families take turns cleaning the church, working in day care, and other jobs in the church, and that is at no pay.
 
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Zeleste

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It is OK how the families in your church get involved in mantaining the church.
God is not providing to the churches by a mean that comes from the Law.
Telling the brothers that tithe is not a choise but an obligation is against God prohibition.
Why dont you take a gun a break into a bank. The money you still will be provided by God. Do trafic of cocaine. The profit will be the provision of God.
 
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