Baptist Tithe

[Keachian]

The point from wich you are trying to avoid is the absolute lack of scriptural support on the "christian tithe". Does somebody know even a single verse in wich the christian tithe can be soported as a scriptural doctrine principle or practice?

I Corinthians 16, II Corinthians 8, I Corinthians 9:7ff

 

[Zeleste]

So no, you have no Scriptural basis for this belief

I am so sorry you dont know of any scripture saying that our mission is to go to the World, make discciples and baptice them. So sorry.

 

[Keachian]

I am so sorry you dont know of any scripture saying that our mission is to go to the World, make discciples and baptice them. So sorry.

My objection is that you are treating it as if mission excludes charity, I know where we get a theology of mission from, I don't understand where you get the exclusion of charity from mission, do you want to give me reference for that?

 

[Zeleste]

I Corinthians 16, II Corinthians 8, I Corinthians 9:7ff

I Corinthians 16
The Collection for the Saints
1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. 3And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. 4And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.
Paul's Plans for Travel
(Romans 15:23-33)
5Now I will come unto you, when I shall pass through Macedonia: for I do pass through Macedonia. 6And it may be that I will abide, yea, and winter with you, that ye may bring me on my journey whithersoever I go. 7For I will not see you now by the way; but I trust to tarry a while with you, if the Lord permit. 8But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost. 9For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and there are many adversaries.
Timothy Commended
10Now if Timotheus come, see that he may be with you without fear: for he worketh the work of the Lord, as I also do. 11Let no man therefore despise him: but conduct him forth in peace, that he may come unto me: for I look for him with the brethren.
12As touching our brother Apollos, I greatly desired him to come unto you with the brethren: but his will was not at all to come at this time; but he will come when he shall have convenient time.
Concluding Exhortations
13Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong. 14Let all your things be done with charity.
15I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,) 16That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboureth. 17I am glad of the coming of Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus: for that which was lacking on your part they have supplied. 18For they have refreshed my spirit and yours: therefore acknowledge ye them that are such.
Paul's Final Greetings
(2 Thessalonians 3:16-18)
19The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house. 20All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss.
21The salutation of me Paul with mine own hand. 22If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha. 23The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. 24My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. Amen. {The first epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi by Stephanas, and Fortunatus, and Achaicus, and Timotheus.

Paul is NOT talking of tithe. Clearly is not about tithe. As I am saying and you dont get it; help for others than those of the local congregation is something exceptional. Here there is a cllect of founds to help the church in Jerusalem. It was an exceptional situation. Pual did organice a collect that were not done before the situation aroused. And the collet did finish as paul took it to Jerusalem. It was a practice isolated in time.



II Corinthians 8
Generosity Commended
1Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia; 2How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality. 3For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves; 4Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints. 5And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God. 6Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.
7Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also. 8I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.
Christ's Example
9For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich. 10And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago. 11Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have. 12For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not. 13For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: 14But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: 15As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.
Titus Commended
(Titus 1:1-4)
16But thanks be to God, which put the same earnest care into the heart of Titus for you. 17For indeed he accepted the exhortation; but being more forward, of his own accord he went unto you. 18And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise is in the gospel throughout all the churches; 19And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind: 20Avoiding this, that no man should blame us in this abundance which is administered by us: 21Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men. 22And we have sent with them our brother, whom we have oftentimes proved diligent in many things, but now much more diligent, upon the great confidence which I have in you. 23Whether any do inquire of Titus, he is my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren be inquired of, they are the messengers of the churches, and the glory of Christ. 24Wherefore shew ye to them, and before the churches, the proof of your love, and of our boasting on your behalf.

NOT talking of tithe


I Corinthians 9:7ff
7Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

I can not imagine where do you read "tithe"

IT IS CLAER THAT CHRISTIANS HAVE COLLECTED A GOOD LIST OF TEXTS THAT CAN USE FOR MISSTEACHING THE TITHE. THE ABOVE ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF TRICKY TEACHING.

 

[Keachian]

I can not imagine where do you read "tithe"

IT IS CLAER THAT CHRISTIANS HAVE COLLECTED A GOOD LIST OF TEXTS THAT CAN USE FOR MISSTEACHING THE TITHE. THE ABOVE ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF TRICKY TEACHING.

Are you just going to go off on your high and mighty horse or do you seek to understand what I mean by tithe, you have a reputation for bombast and not much sense, quibbling over the use of words especially when your use of the word is at odds with what it has come to mean over usage.

Tithing is not an obligation and if you go to a Church that teaches it as an obligation they are wrong!

Tithing as it has come to mean is a willing and regular giving amount normally around 10% of a Church member's income to cover the costs of running the Church, including paying the pastors and teachers, as Paul says is their right in I Co 9:7ff. It is by no means mandatory and should only be strongly encouraged among the members, nonmembers give offerings and any over and above what the member has decided in their heart to give on a regular basis (2 Cor 9:7) is also considered an offering

 

[Zeleste]

Identification
Like the Orthodox Church, Baptists distinguish between tithing and giving an "offering." The word "tithe" actually means the "tenth part of agricultural produce or personal income." Because of this, Baptists believe that members should leave 10 percent of their income for tithing to their church. This tithe is expected and not optional. An offering would be anything above that you give to the Baptist church that exceeds the 10 percent that makes up your tithe.

Function
As with other churches, tithes pay for the basic expenses of a Baptist church. Heat and electricity are two examples. Depending on the size of the Baptist church, the heating and/or electric bill could be thousands of dollars a month. Tithes also benefit special programs, such as international missionaries and local charities. Many Baptists churches will use tithes to purchase food and other supplies for the less fortunate members of the community. This, of course, depends on how many members the church has and how much money is given to that church.

Sponsored Links

Brain Training Games
Improve memory with scientifically designed brain exercises.
Lumosity - Brain Games & Brain Training
Types
Tithing occurs for most Baptists during the Sunday service. Ushers will walk down the aisle holding baskets while church members place money or envelopes (filled with money or a check) into the basket. In larger churches, these baskets can actually be passed through the pews so that members can easily place their tithe into the basket. Some Baptist churches will ask members to simply withhold 10 percent of their earning throughout the month. Members of the congregation will then give their tithe to the church either at the beginning or end of the month.

Benefits
A common belief held by many Baptists is that they will be rewarded both financially and spiritually by tithing. This comes from Luke 6:38, which states "Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Tithing fulfills a commandment from God and thus is necessary for one to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (see Matthew 6:19-21 in Resources).

Expert Insight
Many people worry and even feel guilty about their tithing practices. If you find yourself in this situation, call your minister and tell him about your concerns. You should feel comfortable enough to speak about your finances with your minister. This is especially important if you are worried about losing 10 percent of your weekly (or monthly) income. Spend some time in prayer if you don't know how much to tithe and work with your minister on ways to give more or less of your money to the church.



Read more: What Do Baptists Believe About Tithing? | eHow.com What Do Baptists Believe About Tithing? | eHow.com

Baptist tithe is an obligation.
Christian tithe has not scriptural support.

 

[Zeleste]

Tithing - What the Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination teaches about tithing and why it is wrong.


Before I get started I must premise this section by telling you that this is one of the most dangerous and destructive false teaching of the Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination. Teaching tithing is absolutely unbiblical and nothing more than mind control manipulation. There has been a lot of good information on the truth about tithing made available online and I will provide some links at the bottom of this page to web sites that I have read and agree with. The purpose of this page is not to go into a lot of detail about tithing. I would simply like to point out the false teachings of the Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination in this area and touch on some of the important points about tithing that show why it is wrong.

When I recently asked an Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination minister about tithing this was his reply was: "When men will not tithe, (1) God's work on earth is hindered, (2) the non-tither is robbing God, (3) God will withhold His blessing, even chastening the non-tither. However, God has categorically promised to bless those who will so honor Him. Even other people would perceive God's blessing upon them as they returned to tithing."

False Teaching #1: Tithes vs. Offerings

The basis of the Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination teachings for tithe is a distinction between "Tithes" and "Offerings". The Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination teaches that there is a difference between the two. Basically Tithes is 10% of your monetary Gross (before taxes) income and Offerings is anything over and above the tithe. They further teach that a person is commanded to tithe to the "Local" or "Home" church (the church with which they consider their permanent place of worship). They teach that if you wish to give over and above the tithe you can do so by giving more to the local church or to another ministry. They further teach that if you give your tithe to another ministry then it doesn't count as tithe but offerings and you are still "robbing God" if you don't give your tithe to your home church. The Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination used such verses as Deuteronomy 12:6,11; 2 Chronicles 31:12; Nehemiah 10:37; Nehemiah 12:44; Nehemiah 13:5; and Malachi 3:8 for the basis of their teachings. The offering isn't required, however, the tithe is required.

False Teaching #2: The "Devourer" - Curses for Not Tithing

The Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination uses Malachi 3:10-11 to teach that if you don't tithe, the "Devourer" (Satan) will come and destroy your property as a punishment so that you will incur more financial burden. They teach that if you tithe God will protect your property and your finances through Divine Intervention and not allow bad things to happen that take up your resources such as cars breaking down and leaky roofs.

Here they spell out specifically that God promised that He would "rebuke the devourer." The word so translated as (lka awkal) literally means "the eater." The reference was to hoards of voracious insects which had destroyed their crops. Further, God promised that their vine would not prematurely "cast her fruit before the time in the field." The word translated as cast her fruit (lkv shawlol) has the sense of a "miscarriage." What had happened was that God had sent bad weather which caused the grape crop to be pre-maturely blown on the ground. It may have been by high winds, hail, or a combination of them. God had gotten His tithe. Israel, however, had missed God's blessing and had in fact paid the penalty for not tithing.


False Teaching #3: Blessings for those that Tithe

The Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination wrongly teaches that tithing opens the door for God's blessings and when we don't tithe we are robbing from God and we will be cursed by God withholding His blessings from us. They sight Proverbs 3:9-10 and Malachi 3:7-11 for this belief.

They teach that the degree of giving was based upon how "God hath prospered" which they will say clearly implied proportional giving. In other words, we ought to give in direct proportion as God has blessed us. And of course the universal proportion throughout the Scripture is ten percent as the tithe. They think that Paul clearly is not referring to the tithe regarding the offering for the impoverished Judaean churches, the principle lies just beneath the surface here.

They will bring you back to the Israelites and tell you that as Israel began to tithe (even upon their greatly diminished crops) God promised that He would "open the windows of heaven." They say the reference is likely to sorely needed rain. (The phrase "the windows of heaven" is found three times in the Bible. Notably in the time of Noah it clearly referred to God sending rain. See Genesis 7:11, 8:2. It also is alluded to in II Kings 7:2,19 in the time of Elisha and the siege of Jerusalem. There it also likely was a reference to needed rain.) God prompted them to "prove me now herewith." In other words, "Put me to the test, and see if I will not bless you in return." God promised that as they began to once again tithe, He would pour out blessings for them such they would not be able to receive it all.


False Teaching #4: If you don't tithe you are branded a Thief

If you don't pay tithes the Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination considers you a thief. The Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination teaches that it is the members' responsibility to support the church financially. They use Mal. 3:8-10 to support this and they call the withholder of the tithes and offerings a thief. They even extend this fallacy to the New Testament claiming that I Corinthians 9:1-14, especially verse 14, obligates believers to support the church in precisely the same way that the Tabernacle was supported - by tithes and offerings.


False Teaching #5: Tithe Must come from the Gross Income

This is a huge deal for the Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination. They teach that if you don't tithe from your gross income then your tithe doesn't count because in II Proverbs 3:9-10 the Lord tells us to "Honor the Lord with Firstfruits" which they interpret to mean that one should set aside the tithe FIRST and that it should come out of your gross income, before all other bills and expenses. They teach that if you leave the tithe until last, God usually misses out.

False Teaching #6: Storehouse Tithing

The Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination teaches that tithing is to be "storehouse" tithing. Storehouse tithing means the giving of the tithes into God's appointed place. In Old Testament days, the storehouse was the Jewish temple.

In the Old Testament, The storehouse mentioned was the treasury or warehouse adjacent to the Temple. The economy of the day was largely agriculture and trade was commonly done by barter. It was the practice of the Israelites to bring their tithe to the Temple in the form of the actual commodity (grain, figs, wine, etc.) These then were stored in a warehouse-type of building called the storehouse which was a part of the treasury of the Temple. (Interestingly, Paul used the equivalent Greek word translated as store in I Corinthians 16:2, referring to the local church.) As they did not tithe, the work of the Temple, specifically in the provision of the Levites food, was damaged.

In New Testament days, the storehouse is the treasury of one's local or home church. They use Acts 4:35, 37 5:2 to justify these teachings. According to Acts 4:35,37 and Acts 5:2, the Christians brought their tithes and offerings to the Apostles' feet. They also point to both Malachi 3 and Paul's mention of the "storehouse". According to 1 Corinthians 16:1,2 the Christians at Corinth were to collect their tithes & offerings and bring them to their local church at Corinth, or 'lay by him in store' on the first day of the Week, Sunday. They believe that I Corinthians 16:3 indicates not only that the storehouse is the church treasury, but that the church body collectively has the responsibility to designate where God's money is to be spent. The collective belief among the Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination is that in this day and age the STOREHOUSE for your tithe is your LOCAL CHURCH. The Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination does not believe that it is not God's plan for you to give your tithe wherever you decide.

If you ask them WHY ARE WE TO PLACE OUR TITHE INTO OUR CHURCH? they will respond with what simply amounts to a guilt trip. They will tell you that your tithes and offerings are for the support, upkeep, and ministry of your Church. Tithes should never be designated by the giver. They are to be left for use as the Church body decides. As mentioned previously they teach that offerings over and above the tithe can go to other deserving ministries, but God says your tithe should go to your local church. They teach that if everyone gave their tithe to worthy ministries outside the local church, the local church would die and they take 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 out of context for this belief.

The Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination is very good at telling the word translations from the Septuagint. They believe that the word translated as in store (yhsaurizw thesaurizo) is the same word used in the Septuagint for "storehouse" in Malachi 3:10. The greater point is that the local church of the New Testament has become the "storehouse" for the giving by God's people even as the Temple was during the time of the Law.


False Teaching #7: Tithes must be given on the First day of the Week - Sunday

The Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination will present to you I Corinthians 16:2 where Paul directs how giving ought to be done. "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." They will say that this is a clear indication to the day of the week on which the gentile church assembled. It no longer was the Sabbath on Saturday. Because of our Lord's resurrection on the first day, the early church began to assemble thereon. They will also point to Acts 20:7.

They will convince you by stating that some claim Paul was admonishing them to personally and privately set aside funds to this end each Sunday until Paul arrived. However, that neither makes sense nor meshes with the context. But they argue that if that were the case, why not lay funds aside on payday which probably was Friday or some other day? The fact that Paul directed this be done on the Lord's day, when the church assembled, lends direct credence to the position of giving in the church service (i.e., putting it in the offering plate or whatever device they used). Furthermore they will tell you that Paul made clear that he did not want to be involved with taking such an offering when he arrived. It therefore follows that each Sunday, they were to take a special offering to be duly set aside toward the day of Paul's arrival.

Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination teaches obligatory tithing

 

[Zeleste]

BE AWARE
this a baptist secction of the CF, and baptist practice of tithe is not in obedience or in giving back to God; it is (as show in the first posts) a financial solution.

BE AWARE
this a baptist secction of the CF, and baptist practice of tithe is not in obedience or in giving back to God; it is (as show in the first posts) a financial solution

 

[Zeleste]

The most of the baptist sites in Internet support what i am repeating.

yes

 

[Zeleste]

This isthe situation. As far the tithe concept is getting supported, everything will be OK. As soon I provide solid scripture against the tithe; this threath will be closed. Now you will see.

Scriptural support:
I can provide scripture that the only tithe in the Bible is that tithe of the Law.
I can show scriptures where it is clear that christians are not aloud to practice the Law (including tithe)
I can prove that the biblical tithe is not the 10% of the income.
I can demostrate that in the NT is not any tithe teaching.
I can prove that the christians of the NT did never ever tithe. No ne local church or individual did ever tithe in the NT.

That will be just the starting.
Then I can prove the great damage to spiritual life wich is tithe.
That it is desobeying to the Holy Spirit
That contradict Christ teachins.

The question is: will I be alouded to do so? or I will be stoped by this and that CF rule?

If you have scripture showing tithing is sinful ect then type away, Nothing in CF rules say Baptists have to tithe or don't have to so you are good to go

yes

 

[phoenixdem]

yes

So what is your scripture saying tithing is a sin.

 

[Zeleste]

So what is your scripture saying tithing is a sin.

Tithe was prohibited for the Holy Spirit to christian. Tithing is desobedience to the Holy Spirit.
To tithe is to observ the Law, and any attempt to observ the Law leads to failure wich is sin.

 

[BeeWrangler]

Tithe was prohibited for the Holy Spirit to christian. Tithing is desobedience to the Holy Spirit.
To tithe is to observ the Law, and any attempt to observ the Law leads to failure wich is sin.

There you go Phoenixdem, right out of the book of Zeleste

 

[phoenixdem]

Tithe was prohibited for the Holy Spirit to christian. Tithing is desobedience to the Holy Spirit.
To tithe is to observ the Law, and any attempt to observ the Law leads to failure wich is sin.

Christians don't need to observe the law for purposes of salvation. Christians no longer come under the law, but that isn't getting the bills paid including paying the preacher and paying the bills necessary to maintain the church. It also doesn't send money to missionaries.

If you really believe that paying the bills is sinful, I guess that you will have do what you believe is right. I have never run into anyone who doesn't help maintain the church and the missionaries because they believe doing so is sinful.

 

[phoenixdem]

There you go Phoenixdem, right out of the book of Zeleste

Absolutely. Just when I was thinking I had seen it all... Naw, just kidding.

 

[Zeleste]

Christians don't need to observe the law for purposes of salvation. Christians no longer come under the law, but that isn't getting the bills paid including paying the preacher and paying the bills necessary to maintain the church. It also doesn't send money to missionaries.

If you really believe that paying the bills is sinful, I guess that you will have do what you believe is right. I have never run into anyone who doesn't help maintain the church and the missionaries because they believe doing so is sinful.

Paul teached that getting back under the Law by own will is taking us from the grace and makes the cross useless.
You say that because the church need money and dont trust in God providing; then the christians have to go back under the Law.
And that is exactly the baptist doctrine. Tithe is a good financial solution despite all the terrible concecuences.

 

[Keachian]

Tithe was prohibited for the Holy Spirit to christian. Tithing is desobedience to the Holy Spirit.
To tithe is to observ the Law, and any attempt to observ the Law leads to failure wich is sin.

As you have pointed out previously in the thread because the current observance does not line up with what the Biblical tithe is they shouldn't be called the tithe. Now if what we are doing does not line up with the Law and we acknowledge said fact then how on earth are we attempting to observe the Law?

 

[Zeleste]

As you have pointed out previously in the thread because the current observance does not line up with what the Biblical tithe is they shouldn't be called the tithe. Now if what we are doing does not line up with the Law and we acknowledge said fact then how on earth are we attempting to observe the Law?

The election of the name "tithe" is not an accident and is not a coinsidence. The selection of the name "tithe" is for the christians to make the conection with the tithe mentioned in the Bible. Then, tithe is teach in basis of biblical texts. otherwise, it is impossible to talk of thithe without refering to the OT Law.

Brother tithe beacuse Moses commanded to tithe, because Abraham did tithe as well of Jacob. Brother tithe because of Malachi. Brother tithe because Jesus teached to tithe as the phariseas were doing.

At the end of the day it doesnt matter if Jesus actually did teach against tithe. It dont matter if malachi dont afact us christians. It dont matter if actualli Jacob did never tithe, nor were tithing Abraham.

At the end of the day it makes no difference if the Law tithe was not 10% of the income. What it matters is what christians believe. Christians believe that Moses stablished a 10% of the inome, and that Jesus reinforced that command.

Brother have faith (wrong but sincerely believing) that they are observing the Law. And in their hart they are getting back to the Law.

 

[phoenixdem]

Paul teached that getting back under the Law by own will is taking us from the grace and makes the cross useless.
You say that because the church need money and dont trust in God providing; then the christians have to go back under the Law.
And that is exactly the baptist doctrine. Tithe is a good financial solution despite all the terrible concecuences.

God does provide, through the members of the church. How do you see God providing for the needs of the church? For What do you think the members of the church should be responsible?

I can imagine what you will think about this, but at my church the families take turns cleaning the church, working in day care, and other jobs in the church, and that is at no pay.

 

[Zeleste]

God does provide, through the members of the church. How do you see God providing for the needs of the church? For What do you think the members of the church should be responsible?

I can imagine what you will think about this, but at my church the families take turns cleaning the church, working in day care, and other jobs in the church, and that is at no pay.

It is OK how the families in your church get involved in mantaining the church.
God is not providing to the churches by a mean that comes from the Law.
Telling the brothers that tithe is not a choise but an obligation is against God prohibition.
Why dont you take a gun a break into a bank. The money you still will be provided by God. Do trafic of cocaine. The profit will be the provision of God.