Baptist Tithe

[Zeleste]

Before I said I do not tithe 10% but I give what I can and the Holy Spirit guides me who to give it to, you quoted me and said the Holy Spirit was not guiding me. Then you said we should give like non Christians give, but not to give anything because it is a Christian thing to do.... now your saying the bible says we should give but not tithe... your all over the place and not making any sense Zeleste.

I do make sense. Perhaps you dont want to understand. So you dont tithe 10%. You tithe 8%, or 5% or you tithe 1%. That is tithing and you are not aloud to do it.

If you tithe 3% you are failing to baptist imposition.
If you tithe 3% you are desobeying the Holy Spirit wich say NOT to tithe at all.

To give according to the NT.
1 - In the NT christians give to the brothers in need, to the local church, to the pastor and to the evangelistic activities. That is NOT giving to God at all... not according to the NT.
2 - Giving is NEVER an excuse to tithe.
3 - Giving is ONLY a response to a need. NEVER comes before the need. It is not like first the church/pastor collect the money and then administrate how to use that money. It is like a need emerges and then is the giving in response.
4 - Giving is NOT a systematic practice. It is NOT something christians do everytime recieve the paycheck. It is NOT a regular giving but exceptional.

 

[Zeleste]

You need to get the idea that tithing 10% is something we have to do. Infact you should get the entire word "tithe" out of your head, it is just a word. Replace it with "give". Give what you can, if you have no money to give then give some of your free time. Got some stuff collecting dust that you don't really need? Give it to someone who does need it. Your stressing yourself because you feel you might just be wrong about the 10% tithe but you don't have 10% to give... forget about it. Remove the tithe word from your mind and simply give what you can. God loves a cheerful giver, not a tither who does it not because they want to but because they feel pressured to... that is not what God wants.

Worded that wrong, not saying God does not love someone who tithes because they feel they need to, but it is meaningless to God that they are doing it because it is not an act of love it is simply an act. But many people do love to give 10%, not everyone does it because they feel they have to. That does not mean you have to give 10%, just like if a missionary feels drawn to help others in the mission field... does not mean that is what I have to do. We all fit in as Christians in different ways.

The word "tithe" is introduced by the baptist church, not by me. I will not pretend we are talking of anything else, since the baptist churches insist on calling it tithe. Why they call it "tithe"? For the brother make the conection with the OT Law. The word "tithe" was carefully selected in order to desieve the brothers and make them believe that it is sometrhing scriptural.

We are talking of tithe, you like it or not.

 

[Zeleste]

Tithing is going back to the Law, walking away from the grace and getting separated from Christ, making the cross nule.

 

[ChristianT]

I do make sense. Perhaps you dont want to understand. So you dont tithe 10%. You tithe 8%, or 5% or you tithe 1%. That is tithing and you are not aloud to do it.

If you tithe 3% you are failing to baptist imposition.
If you tithe 3% you are desobeying the Holy Spirit wich say NOT to tithe at all.

To give according to the NT.
1 - In the NT christians give to the brothers in need, to the local church, to the pastor and to the evangelistic activities. That is NOT giving to God at all... not according to the NT.
2 - Giving is NEVER an excuse to tithe.
3 - Giving is ONLY a response to a need. NEVER comes before the need. It is not like first the church/pastor collect the money and then administrate how to use that money. It is like a need emerges and then is the giving in response.
4 - Giving is NOT a systematic practice. It is NOT something christians do everytime recieve the paycheck. It is NOT a regular giving but exceptional.

This world is filled with needs. So many in fact, that a church can take up a general offering and distribute it to people in need. Also, you speak of tithe as if it is murder "an excuse to tithe?" We need excuses to give? Sure it's not the same as a biblical tithe, for we are not obligated, when we give (tithe as a modern synonym), it should be out of compassion and love.

 

[Zeleste]

Identification
Like the Orthodox Church, Baptists distinguish between tithing and giving an "offering." The word "tithe" actually means the "tenth part of agricultural produce or personal income." Because of this, Baptists believe that members should leave 10 percent of their income for tithing to their church. This tithe is expected and not optional. An offering would be anything above that you give to the Baptist church that exceeds the 10 percent that makes up your tithe.

We baptist belive that all baptist have the imposition to give freely;
and the have to do it joyfully whether they like it or not.

 

[ChristianT]

We baptist belive that all baptist have the imposition to give freely; and the have to do it "joyfully" whether they like it or not.

Not my church. Nor me.

 

[Zeleste]

This world is filled with needs. So many in fact, that a church can take up a general offering and distribute it to people in need. Also, you speak of tithe as if it is murder "an excuse to tithe?" We need excuses to give? Sure it's not the same as a biblical tithe, for we are not obligated, when we give (tithe as a modern synonym), it should be out of compassion and love.

Tithe is by definition an obligation. Tithe is not about giving out of compassion. For giving out of caopassion you need to use another word. But the baptist church insist in using the word "tithe".

To tithe is to self kill your spiritual life. It breaks your relationship with God. And teaching to tithe is spiritual murder.

The baptist churches are administrated like any other world institution. They make a budget and later see how is the better way to use it. That is not the way a real church do. A real church make all proyects, and only later hope to some support to apears.

 

[Zeleste]

Not my church. Nor me.

Go and tell your pastor that you will stop tithing. Tell him that somebody named Zeleste convinced you and that you will spread the new concept with your fellows in the congregation. He will sound all alarms and will do all necesary in order to garanty the money flowing into the church.

 

[ChristianT]

Go and tell your pastor that you will stop tithing. Tell him that somebody named Zeleste convinced you and that you will spread the new concept with your fellows in the congregation. He will sound all alarms and will do all necesary in order to garanty the money flowing into the church.

I guess you don't get it. We don't preach tithe is an obligation.

 

[BeeWrangler]

Alright, I can see you clearly have no intentions of opening a bible and actually read anything for yourself, rather you choose to go to other forums and copy/paste what others say. I have asked a number of times for you to provide scripture but the only thing you provide is you meaningless opinion (meaningless to me). So, I will provide the scripture I have been waiting to use for after you provided yours... knowing now you have no intentions of typing any scripture I will, then we can agree to disagree.

Acts 20:35 I have shown you in every way, by laboring like this, that you must support the weak. And remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”

2 Corinthians 9:6-8 But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

Phillippians 4:15-17 Now you Philippians know also that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church shared with me concerning giving and receiving but you only. 16 For even in Thessalonica you sent aid once and again for my necessities. 17 Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that abounds to your account.

Luke 6:30
Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back.

Luke 6:38 Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”

Luke 3:11 He answered and said to them, “He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise.”

Matthew 6:3-4 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.

Matthew 6:19-21 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Luke 3:10-11
10 So the people asked him, saying, “What shall we do then?”
11 He answered and said to them, “He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise.”


Acts 4:34-35
Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.


Luke 14:33
So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.


I could keep going on and on and on, I could spend all my day posting scripture where Gods word says to give... but I have a feeling no matter what I type your pride in wanting to be right will stop you from listening, if what I put does not show you we are guided to give, should give and need to give then there is no point to continue putting more scripture. You should actually take the time to read it though.

 

[Zeleste]

Getting back to the baptist section on CF

Baptist chruches has the internal rule of demanding of the congregation the 10% of the income.
That is for the porpouse of financing all the bills and projects.
Unfortuantelly they choose the name "tithe" wich leads to the tithe in the OT.
Despite that, the main stream of the baptist understand that 10% as a internal rule as a financial solution.
But some or many brother and pastor get confused and commence teaching about the OT tithe in conetion with the baptist internal rule.

Baptist church has all the right to charge the congregation with the 10% of the income.
Even if they dont have such right, there is notnhere to critizice what they do and rule.

My personal interest is in divorsing the baptist tithe from the biblical tithe.

 

[ChristianT]

We don't preach tithe. We preach "Give what you can, that which God calls you to give. It may be money, time, work, or prayer." We tend to focus much more on the gospel and how we're going to display it to our city this week.

 

[Zeleste]

I guess you don't get it. We don't preach tithe is an obligation.

If it is not an obligation... Go and tell your pastor that you will stop tithing. Tell him that somebody named Zeleste convinced you and that you will spread the new concept with your fellows in the congregation. He will sound all alarms and will do all necesary in order to garanty the money flowing into the church. Then you will discover that it is an obligation.

 

[Zeleste]

Alright, I can see you clearly have no intentions of opening a bible and actually read anything for yourself, rather you choose to go to other forums and copy/paste what others say. I have asked a number of times for you to provide scripture but the only thing you provide is you meaningless opinion (meaningless to me). So, I will provide the scripture I have been waiting to use for after you provided yours... knowing now you have no intentions of typing any scripture I will, then we can agree to disagree.

Acts 20:35 I have shown you in every way, by laboring like this, that you must support the weak. And remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”

2 Corinthians 9:6-8 But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

Phillippians 4:15-17 Now you Philippians know also that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church shared with me concerning giving and receiving but you only. 16 For even in Thessalonica you sent aid once and again for my necessities. 17 Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that abounds to your account.

Luke 6:30
Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back.

Luke 6:38 Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”

Luke 3:11 He answered and said to them, “He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise.”

Matthew 6:3-4 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.

Matthew 6:19-21 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Luke 3:10-11
10 So the people asked him, saying, “What shall we do then?”
11 He answered and said to them, “He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise.”


Acts 4:34-35
Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.


Luke 14:33
So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.


I could keep going on and on and on, I could spend all my day posting scripture where Gods word says to give... but I have a feeling no matter what I type your pride in wanting to be right will stop you from listening, if what I put does not show you we are guided to give, should give and need to give then there is no point to continue putting more scripture. You should actually take the time to read it though.

I am in the suppose that you know the Bible. I told you my statement and asked you if you really dont know the verses. You kade silence meaning that you know where to found in the Bible what I am declaring.

In the other had, you did never provide not even a single verse supporting christian tithe. And you just did confirm it by posting a lot of verses talking of many things but of tithing.

 

[ChristianT]

Well my short participation has fallen in deaf ears, so I bid you adieu. Perhaps you should turn your attention to the poor and orphans.

 

[Zeleste]

We don't preach tithe. We preach "Give what you can, that which God calls you to give. It may be money, time, work, or prayer." We tend to focus much more on the gospel and how we're going to display it to our city this week.

OK. Giving is out of question. It is about giving. It is about giving whatever can be gived. Here in Montevideo we have one of those busynes churches. The call people to step forwar to donate 1.000 pesos, then 500 peso, 100 pesos, 1 peso, and even cents. The goal is that nobody leaves the church without steping forward and giving sometyhing.

 

[Zeleste]

Well my short participation has fallen in deaf ears, so I bid you adieu. Perhaps you should turn your attention to the poor and orphans.

I am happy (not sorry) for spoiling your very profitable practice of taking money out of your congregation. I am also happy to found that you have not more excuses to desieve your brothers.

 

[Zeleste]

I could keep going on and on and on, I could spend all my day posting scripture where Gods word says to give....

Hundred of verses saying to give... and not even a single one saying of tithing.
As I have said; christian life is about giving generously... but NOT BY TITHING. you are confirming my saying.

 

[BeeWrangler]

I am in the suppose that you know the Bible. I told you my statement and asked you if you really dont know the verses. You kade silence meaning that you know where to found in the Bible what I am declaring.

In the other had, you did never provide not even a single verse supporting christian tithe. And you just did confirm it by posting a lot of verses talking of many things but of tithing.

My point is not about tithing, I have been saying the entire time we do not need to tithe. I said "I give what I can and the Holy Spirit guides me where to give it to" You said "The Holy Spirit does not guide you" What does that have to do with the word tithe? I did not say I tithe I said I give but you still said the Holy Spirit does not guide us to give... see where I am going with this. You also went on a few posts back telling someone "this is the Baptist forum" basically telling him he shouldn't be here because he tithes... then you post a huge post about some guy bashing the Baptist church because the Baptist church "wants us to tithe" Your all over the place, one minute your pro Baptist thinking we are all against tithing, then your posting stuff bashing Baptist because they are in support of tithing. You said the Holy Spirit does not guide me to "give" then I post scripture that proves the Holy Spirit does guide us to give and you try to turn it around saying I said I "tithe" if you read back you will see I never once said I tithe. So then you label "giving" as "tithing" All I can really do is laugh and walk away from this, chalking it up as wasted time.

 

[ChristianT]

I am happy (not sorry) for spoiling your very profitable practice of taking money out of your congregation. I am also happy to found that you have not more excuses to desieve your brothers.

XD you're funny