Baptist Pastor

[mlqurgw]

Just thought I would point out that it is Christ who gives pastors to His church. They are one of the gifts spoken of in Eph. 4:11


Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Take out the parenthetical statement of verses 9,10 and you will see what I mean.


Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

 

[MbiaJc]

I have been thinking about this. What the word says is right but not a single one of us can do what it says. God's standard on His Word is perfection. "Be perfect as my Father in Heaven is perfect" Mat 5 (verse reference slips my mind). Ed Cole preaches this: The only verse you beleive is the one you obey. I think that's right. If the standard is "do" what the word says then you better take at look at the rules closely. You have to do all of it and have never missed a beat.

So, in fact, your statement is correct but with this minor adjustment. We should not seek to do it our way although to some degree we will. That's why there is grace. It's not for our abuse of it, it's just because we are not perfect, as our Father in Heaven is perfect.

Agreed: However we are to strive to be perfect.

BTW I am not suggesting we go to Church sunday and change things to a bibical pattern. For Christ said to leave the tars along, that He would pluck them out when He comes. Because He can without upsetting the true vine. However I think it is important for the Saints to know what is truth and what not. Else how are we to know what to do in cirmonstances as these.

 

[MbiaJc]

The church has no right to judge a person at all.
That is up to the Lord.
That's His job.

Sister the Church is to judge that within, not that without. God judges that.

 

[MbiaJc]

[

QUOTE=mlqurgw]Just thought I would point out that it is Christ who gives pastors to His church. They are one of the gifts spoken of in Eph. 4:11

You need to study that a little further. There is just four gifts in Eph. 4:11 not five. It is shepard teacher, not shepard and teacher.

Ask your self why would there be a pastor as in shepard listed here and in Timothy and Tytus go in detail as to who are the under shepards of the Church are. Which are the Elder men. Which according to the Mosiac priesthood would be at least 50yr old. And another verry important thing. It is a gooop of Elders. There is no where in the NT where there is a single ruling Elder. It is always plural.




Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

You can see what I am saying by the KJV, see the difference in the language. If you got a Greek English Parrell that translated word for word. It would be helpful.

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Take out the parenthetical statement of verses 9,10 and you will see what I mean.


Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

That is simply a Shepard teacher one gift not two.

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

[/QUOTE]

However to straighten the whold mess out we would need do away with the denominations. So there would be just one Church in every City.

 

[eldermike]

Agreed: However we are to strive to be perfect.

Well, we just need die and let what is perfect have control. We strive against the flesh. We should never attempt to make the flesh perfect.

 

[MbiaJc]

Well, we just need die and let what is perfect have control. We strive against the flesh. We should never attempt to make the flesh perfect.

So you are saying we are not to strive to be perfect?


Go back and reed the edit, I made to post #62

 

[eldermike]

So you are saying we are not to strive to be perfect?


Go back and reed the edit, I made to post #62

I am saying that "we" don't strive to do anything but sin, that's the very reason the law's purpose was revealed to us, it points us to Christ. I strive to love God with all my heart soul and mind, with all my strength. Any changes made to me are done by Him, not by me.

I did read your edit.
We agree that we are to tell people the truth and that truth is what is in God's word.

 

[mlqurgw]

You need to study that a little further. There is just four gifts in Eph. 4:11 not five. It is shepard teacher, not shepard and teacher.

Actually I have studied it. You may want to check your Greek text on that one. The word kia(and) is between shepard and teacher in those that I have.

Ask your self why would there be a pastor as in shepard listed here and in Timothy and Tytus go in detail as to who are the under shepards of the Church are. Which are the Elder men. Which according to the Mosiac priesthood would be at least 50yr old. And another verry important thing. It is a gooop of Elders. There is no where in the NT where there is a single ruling Elder. It is always plural.

I agree that there are a plurality of Elders in the New Testament Church but it is also clear that there is only one who is the presiding Elder or pastor. Christ doesn't write to the Angels(plural) of the individual churches in Rev. 2and 3 but to the angel (singular). As to their age I find no requirement other than they not be a novice.

Eph 4:7

But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)



You can see what I am saying by the KJV, see the difference in the language. If you got a Greek English Parrell that translated word for word. It would be helpful.

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Take out the parenthetical statement of verses 9,10 and you will see what I mean.


Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.


That is simply a Shepard teacher one gift not two.

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

However to straighten the whold mess out we would need do away with the denominations. So there would be just one Church in every City.

Perhaps.

 

[MbiaJc]

=mlqurgw]Actually I have studied it. You may want to check your Greek text on that one. The word kia(and) is between shepard and teacher in those that I have.

Kia yes, but not tous de like the others no. If he had ment two gifts there it would have said some pastors and some teachers. However that not what Paul is saying. He is simply saying shepard teacher. AllTeacher are shepard to a degree. Also compare 1 Cor 12:28 and you will see that the gift of teaching also includes Evangelist.

I agree that there are a plurality of Elders in the New Testament Church but it is also clear that there is only one who is the presiding Elder or pastor. Christ doesn't write to the Angels(plural) of the individual churches in Rev. 2and 3 but to the angel (singular). As to their age I find no requirement other than they not be a novice.

First the Angel of the Church is not the pastors. If they were He would have told John to write what he saw in a book and send it to the seven Churches. He would have said send it to the Pastors of the seven Churches.

Second It is not clear there is only one who is a presiding Elder. That is man made doctrine and is not taught in the the scriptures. You are trying to divide the laity even further. Which thing Jesus says He hates. There is no where in the Bible where it has a one man ruling pastor, no where.

Third I have already told you where to look for the age. Because the Chruch is paterned after the Mosaic priesthood. That was the reason Jesus waited till he was thirty years old to start his ministery. Because the Levites strted their work in the temple at age thirty. They served in the temple till age 50. After that age with their temple duties behind them, they could be appointed to serve as Elder on the sanhederin.

It is true that Peter usually spoke for the 12. Are you saying Peter was the one in charge and not Jesus.

 

[JPPT1974]

I am saying that "we" don't strive to do anything but sin, that's the very reason the law's purpose was revealed to us, it points us to Christ. I strive to love God with all my heart soul and mind, with all my strength. Any changes made to me are done by Him, not by me.

I did read your edit.
We agree that we are to tell people the truth and that truth is what is in God's word.

God is the truth and the Bible is His Word.
We all should love the Lord with all of our heart, soul, and mind.
And strive to become more conform to His image.

 

[MbiaJc]

God is the truth and the Bible is His Word.
We all should love the Lord with all of our heart, soul, and mind.
And strive to become more conform to His image.

and

 

[thepianist]

Can a divorced man become a baptist Pastor? I know Baptists don't allow a Pastor to keep his position if they get divorced, right?

I'm very sorry for the fact that you had to experience a bad marriage. (Both my husband and I have gone through the same thing). I am a Baptist - not any certain 'kind' of one - just a Baptist.

My husband is the pastor of our little Baptist church - he has been divorced. Through much prayer and study, he has come to peace with the fact that he was divorced. God has blessed our church with souls.

I don't believe it is something that any 'man' or 'group' can make a decision about. What I have seen with my husband, is that it takes the Lord showing that person whether it's the right thing. Truly, the ultimate answer to that question must come from above.