Baptist Belief in Separation of Church and State

[Ave Maria]

I keep hearing that most or all Baptists believe in Separation of Church and State. What exactly does this mean? Is this talking about the political sense of the word or some other meaning? If it's the political sense of the word, I had no idea that this was a common belief among Baptists. Can someone please explain this to me?

 

[Matthan]

Most Protestant denominations have, at one time or another in history, alligned themselves with the power of a secular government. As a direct result of their being proclaimed the "official" denomination of a country, they were able to persecute other Christian denominations, and especially Baptists, for not conforming to their form to christianity.

Baptists have never alligned themselves with any government. In fact, it was many years after the Pilgrims landed before Baptists actually had a "home" where they were welcomed (Rhode Island, believe it or not).

Matthan <J><

 

[FreeinChrist]

Separation of church and state - meaning no government required religion and one is free to worship as one believes.
It is the result of a past history where there was persecution by State endorsed religions. It is WHY there is the the one freedom in the Bill of Rights - freedom of religion - to worship as you beleive and not according to a State church that restricts what you can say you believe. Freedom of religion and separation of church in state go hand in hand.

How much of church history, post 500 AD, are you familiar with?

 

[Matthan]

A correction is in order, FreeinChrist. There is no "freedom of religion" mentioned in the Constitution of the United States of America. None whatsoever, believe it or not.

Matthan <J><

 

[FreeinChrist]

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmenti

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I believe "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" means freedom to practice my religion - often shortened to 'freedom of religion'.

"no law respecting an establishment of religion" refers to creating a State religion.
IMHO.

 

[Ave Maria]

Separation of church and state - meaning no government required religion and one is free to worship as one believes.
It is the result of a past history where there was persecution by State endorsed religions. It is WHY there is the the one freedom in the Bill of Rights - freedom of religion - to worship as you beleive and not according to a State church that restricts what you can say you believe. Freedom of religion and separation of church in state go hand in hand.

How much of church history, post 500 AD, are you familiar with?

I'm not familiar with much church history at all. Sorry!

So basically most Baptists believe that governments shouldn't institute a state religion? If that's the case, I agree.

 

[FreeinChrist]

I'm not familiar with much church history at all. Sorry!

So basically most Baptists believe that governments shouldn't institute a state religion? If that's the case, I agree.

Yep! that is what it means.

 

[Matthan]

Sorry, but "congress shall pass no law..." is a long way from "freedom of religion." congress is prohibited from interferring with religion, but nowhere will you be able to find that freedom of religion is some kind of right.

Matthan <J><

 

[FreeinChrist]

I believe there are plenty Constitutional Law scholars who would disagree as it is listed in the "Bill of Rights:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmentix

But you have the right to your opinion!

 

[HiredGoon]

It was a Baptist, named Issac Backus (1724-1806), who petioned Congress for a seperation of Church and State. "While in the pastorate, Isaac became involved in the great battle for the separation of church and state. The state of Massachusetts had imposed an "ecclesiastical tax" upon all citizens to support the Congregational churches. Those who opposed the beliefs of these churches were still required to pay the tax. Any person refusing to cooperate would have their house, land and possessions confiscated. If the individual still did not comply, he would be imprisoned. Pastor Backus and many other pastors took a stand against the mandatory tax. They believed that the teachings of these state churches were contrary to the Bible and that the government of Massachusetts had no right interfering with religious matters. Time and again the group appealed to the leaders of Massachusetts for an end to the tax, but they were not successful. In 1774 Isaac Backus and a group of supporters traveled to the First Continental Congress to discuss their plight with the delegates. Backus offered a Bill of Rights for consideration to friends at the time of the writing of the American Constitution. His second right read as follows:

"As God is the only worthy object of all religious worship, and nothing can be true religion but a voluntary obedience unto His revealed will … every person has an unalienable right to act in all religious affairs according to the full persuasion of his own mind, where others are not injured thereby …"

 

[rural_preacher]

Separation of Church and State
God established both the church and the civil government, and He gave each its own distinct sphere of operation. The government's purposes are outlined in Romans 13:1-7 and the church's purposes in Matthew 28:19, 20. Neither should control the other, nor should there be an alliance between the two. Christians in a free society can properly influence government toward righteousness, which is not the same as a denomination or group of churches controlling the government.

We are in no way wanting a secularized country. Separation of church and state simply means that each has its sphere of God given responsibility without one having any type of official control over the other. All Christians should desire to see godly people in government positions leading our nation according to the moral and spiritual standards of Scripture. For that to happen does not require an establishment of religion in government.

When our founding fathers said "there shall be no establishment of religion", they meant that no denomination can be established as the "official" denomination of our government. They did not mean that the government should be a purely secular system with no regard for the principles and morality of the Bible.

 

[Ave Maria]

We are in no way wanting a secularized country. Separation of church and state simply means that each has its sphere of God given responsibility without one having any type of official control over the other. All Christians should desire to see godly people in government positions leading our nation according to the moral and spiritual standards of Scripture. For that to happen does not require an establishment of religion in government.

When our founding fathers said "there shall be no establishment of religion", they meant that no denomination can be established as the "official" denomination of our government. They did not mean that the government should be a purely secular system with no regard for the principles and morality of the Bible.

Thank you for explaining that rural_preacher. I am also against the secularization of government. I feel that government should be neutral to religion. It should definitely not institute a state religion or state government but it should also be neutral in regards to religion and religious morality.

 

[MbiaJc]

We are in no way wanting a secularized country. Separation of church and state simply means that each has its sphere of God given responsibility without one having any type of official control over the other. All Christians should desire to see godly people in government positions leading our nation according to the moral and spiritual standards of Scripture. For that to happen does not require an establishment of religion in government.

When our founding fathers said "there shall be no establishment of religion", they meant that no denomination can be established as the "official" denomination of our government. They did not mean that the government should be a purely secular system with no regard for the principles and morality of the Bible.

AND

 

[Crazy Liz]

A correction is in order, FreeinChrist. There is no "freedom of religion" mentioned in the Constitution of the United States of America. None whatsoever, believe it or not.

Matthan <J><

"free exercise thereof" is pretty close, is it not?

 

[Diane_Windsor]

I keep hearing that most or all Baptists believe in Separation of Church and State. What exactly does this mean? Is this talking about the political sense of the word or some other meaning? If it's the political sense of the word, I had no idea that this was a common belief among Baptists. Can someone please explain this to me?

Here is the "Position Statement" of the SBC:

Church and State


We stand for a free church in a free state. Neither one should control the affairs of the other. We support the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, with its "establishment" and "free exercise" clauses. We do, of course, acknowledge the legitimate interplay of these two spheres. For example, it is appropriate for the state to enact and enforce fire codes for the church nurseries. It is also appropriate for ministers to offer prayer at civic functions. Neither the Constitution nor Baptist tradition would build a wall of separation against such practices as these.

Hope that helps

 

[MbiaJc]

A correction is in order, FreeinChrist. There is no "freedom of religion" mentioned in the Constitution of the United States of America. None whatsoever, believe it or not.

Matthan <J><

The Constitutuon also does not mention seperation of Church and state as far as I can determond.