Baptism

[Presbyterian Continuist]

"And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed." - Acts 14:21-23

I would have agreed with you if you had said that ordaining ministers may have been done differently in the early church.

They were elders, not one-man-band ministers or pastors who are in the majority of our churches, who do all the ministry and the members sit in services like passive wooden Indians. The elders in the early church were facilitators to ensure everything was done decently and in order. They were not dictators who had the special ear to God to be the sole dispenser of the Word of God to the people. Professionally trained clergy came much later in the history of the church.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I would want to say the same thing, that baptismal regeneration is heresy, but it is not as clear cut as we think it is in some of these denominations that hold to this idea. I'll have to study again what they hold to, as should you, to the meaning of their sacramental practice before making such quick pronouncements. They are our brothers.

Anyone who preaches and teaches a false, corrupted gospel is not my brother in Christ. I know that my view is not a man-pleasing view, but there is only one gospel and that is faith in Christ alone without anything else that we can do to add to it. Any other gospel is preaching another Christ and another gospel, and Paul says let such people who preach it let them be cursed. So I have nothing in common with someone who has the curse of God on them.

 

[royal priest]

What is the point of sanctifying the water?

It gives the element the supernatural power to save. So much so that faith need not be present in the recipient. Ex oper operandi.

 

[misput]

A believer is already regenerated, water baptism is a sign of that regeneration. If the heart is right, it would be impossible to do it wrong, even if milk were used : )

 

[tturt]

"One Lord, one faith, one baptism," Eph 4:5 seems to indicate one baptism but we know The Lord is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

There's a doctrine of baptismS,..." (Heb 6:2) Baptism means to immerse.

There are at least 3 baptisms:

1 - By The Holy Spirit into Jesus is the baptism for salvation (blood baptism)
(Rev 1:5; Matt 26:28; Mark 1:4, 16:16; Luk 3:3; 1 Cor 12:13: Acts 2:38: Gal 3:27, +++)
Also, "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," Eph 1:13

Water and Spirit baptism follows - not in a set order:
2 - By another believer (water baptism) (Matt 28:19, Matt 3:16 " they've found where some believe the 3,000 were baptized; Acts 2:41 Philip with the eunuch "...when they were come up out of the water..." Acts 8:39++++)
3 - By Jesus with or into The Holy Spirit (The Spirit baptism) Already have the Holy Spirit but this baptism endures with power Acts 1:9
(Matt 3:11; Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16; Acts 11:16++++)'

"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." I John 5:7-8

 

[zoidar]

Element: Do you believe baptism should be performed only with water?

Yes!

Formula: Do you believe baptism should be performed only in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?

Yes!

Mode: Do you believe baptism should be performed only by immersion?

No, sprinkling or pouring on water is fine!

Recipient: Do you believe baptism should be performed only to believers?

Depends... Infants can be bapized but not adult unbelievers.

And finally, do you believe baptism should be performed only by an ordained minister?

No! Preferable by an ordnained minister, but not necessary.

 

[miggles]

Let's debate about this subject, how about it?

Element: Do you believe baptism should be performed only with water?

Formula: Do you believe baptism should be performed only in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?

Mode: Do you believe baptism should be performed only by immersion?

Recipient: Do you believe baptism should be performed only to believers?

And finally, do you believe baptism should be performed only by an ordained minister?

yes
YES
no
yes
no

 

[miggles]

i find the recipient question strange. why would anyone who doesn't believe want to be baptized? i don't think baptism alone saves a person.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Let's debate about this subject, how about it?

While a person can be water baptized, it is no longer required. Spirit baptism is what counts. Water baptism is an OT ritual that is a picture or symbol pointing to the true baptism (Which is Spirit baptism).

Element: Do you believe baptism should be performed only with water?

I believe it is important to follow what the Bible says, but context also should be taken under consideration. So if one is baptized with the baptism of John for repentance, it would naturally be in water because that is how it was done. But John was the last OT prophet. John said that Jesus would baptize us in the Spirit and with fire.

Formula: Do you believe baptism should be performed only in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?

There are instances where they baptized in the Spirit in Jesus' name. Whether or not this was merely a leaving out of information (for brevity's sake) is unknown.

Mode: Do you believe baptism should be performed only by immersion?

John's baptism was by immersion in water.
Spirit baptism can happen when a person first accepts Christ as their Savior or when they are water baptized or when an apostle lays their hand on them.

Recipient: Do you believe baptism should be performed only to believers?

Yes. Children cannot be baptized.

And finally, do you believe baptism should be performed only by an ordained minister?

The Bible mentions nothing about Bible school and or being ordained officially by men.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Let's debate about this subject, how about it?

Element: Do you believe baptism should be performed only with water?

Formula: Do you believe baptism should be performed only in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?

Mode: Do you believe baptism should be performed only by immersion?

Recipient: Do you believe baptism should be performed only to believers?

And finally, do you believe baptism should be performed only by an ordained minister?

Yes to all except the last question. Any believer can baptize another.

 

[dqhall]

Let's debate about this subject, how about it?

Element: Do you believe baptism should be performed only with water?

Formula: Do you believe baptism should be performed only in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?

Mode: Do you believe baptism should be performed only by immersion?

Recipient: Do you believe baptism should be performed only to believers?

And finally, do you believe baptism should be performed only by an ordained minister?

Richard Wurmbrand was a Jewish Lutheran Romanian minister. He lived during the reign of the Marxist atheist USSR. While in prison for religious activities, he baptized a convert by pouring a cup of water over his head.

 

[zoidar]

i find the recipient question strange. why would anyone who doesn't believe want to be baptized? i don't think baptism alone saves a person.

People get all kinds of ideas. Heard it directly from a non Christian, thinking about getting baptized. I never got to know his reason.

 

[GodLovesCats]

None of the Apostles were ordained ministers, neither was Philip who baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch. It is the state of the heart that is more important than the elements of the process. Any person can baptize a new believer, in the bath, in church, in a river, or a swimming pool. Makes no difference to a believer who loves the Lord in his heart.

Obviously the person who performs the baptism must be a believer, so "any person" is incorrect.

The purpose of baptism is to publicly display your death and rebirth in Christ. I will stick to my view it is a church ritual, not to be done wherever there is enough water.

 

[setst777]

Let's debate about this subject, how about it?

setst RE: OK

Element: Do you believe baptism should be performed only with water?

setst RE: The NT Scriptures throughout assume water is what is used in Baptism. So... Yes.

Formula: Do you believe baptism should be performed only in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?

setst RE: Not necessarily, since all who were actually baptized in the Book of Acts were baptized in the name: "Jesus." Therefore, the name "Jesus" is the authority of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, of which all are baptized.

Acts 2:38 (NIV)
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 4:12 (NIV)
12 Salvation is found in no one else,
for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

Mode: Do you believe baptism should be performed only by immersion?

setst RE: Yes, Baptism is by immersion.

Romans 6:1-5 (NIV)
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.

Recipient: Do you believe baptism should be performed only to believers?

setst RE: Yes, baptism represents our willingness to repent (die to) our old lives of sin, and to rise a new creature in Christ.

Acts 2:38 (NIV)
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

We must assume then if a family is baptized in the NT, then the whole family would have been old enough to repent and believe in Jesus at the hearing of the Gospel.

And finally, do you believe baptism should be performed only by an ordained minister?

setst RE: If possible, that is preferred since:

1) the minister was ordained in that he was determined faithful to perform this Spiritual function.

2) the baptism is a testimony of one's faith to the body of believers...

Romans 9:9-13 (NIV)
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Anyone who preaches and teaches a false, corrupted gospel is not my brother in Christ. I know that my view is not a man-pleasing view, but there is only one gospel and that is faith in Christ alone without anything else that we can do to add to it. Any other gospel is preaching another Christ and another gospel, and Paul says let such people who preach it let them be cursed. So I have nothing in common with someone who has the curse of God on them.

Are you so certain your position is correct? Lots of accusations in this comment that if you are wrong...

Something very tangible happens in baptism. Paul equated it to spiritual circumcision in Colossians 2:11-12. God punished the Israelites for only having a fleshly circumcision and not a spiritual one (Jeremiah 9:26)

Getting baptized isnt a work a believer does to earn their salvation, its being obedient.

Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins! Acts 2:38

No one can see the kingdom of God unless born of WATER & SPIRIT John 3:5

Telling people they don't need to be water baptized is more likely a false gospel, than telling people they do. Such a statement is teaching disobedience to scriptures.

Galatians 3:27, As many as were BAPTIZED into Christ have put on Christ

Romans 6:3-4, Baptized into Christ's death, burial and resurrection.

 

[archer75]

None of the Apostles were ordained ministers, neither was Philip who baptised the Ethiopian Eunuch. It is the state of the heart that is more important than the elements of the process. Any person can baptise a new believer, in the bath, in church, in a river, or a swimming pool. Makes no difference to a believer who loves the Lord in his heart.

It is the Apostles who, after Christ, are the "source" of what we call ordination. The bishops are their successors and they delegate authority to the priests and others.

 

[Albion]

While a person can be water baptized, it is no longer required. Spirit baptism is what counts.

When did the change-over take place? It could not have been in the time of Christ, since he sent his Apostles out into the world, instructing them to baptize people (which could not refer to a "baptism of the Holy Spirit" experience).

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Let's debate about this subject, how about it?

Element: Do you believe baptism should be performed only with water?

Formula: Do you believe baptism should be performed only in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?

Mode: Do you believe baptism should be performed only by immersion?

Recipient: Do you believe baptism should be performed only to believers?

And finally, do you believe baptism should be performed only by an ordained minister?

YES-YES-NO-YES-NO
More important, be Baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Blessings

 

[food4thought]

Let's debate about this subject, how about it?

Thank you for the opportunity to discuss this topic.

Element: Do you believe baptism should be performed only with water?

Well, there is the baptism of the Spirit, so... but as for the practice of baptism, water is the way described in the Scriptures (Acts 8:36-38; 2:38; 10:47)

Formula: Do you believe baptism should be performed only in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?

I think so, yes.

Mode: Do you believe baptism should be performed only by immersion?

When possible, yes. Yet there are extreme situations where scarcity of water or time may make immersion impossible. In such circumstances I believe God would be gracious to those who have water sprinkled or poured on them.

Recipient: Do you believe baptism should be performed only to believers?

Yes. I am at odds with the church I attend on this point, but infant baptism does nothing for the child but get them wet. Infant dedication ceremony? Fine. This is more for the parents and congregation than doing anything spiritual to the child. Infant baptism into the body of Christ? Of no spiritual value to the child, IMO, and it may be detrimental because, in most cases, no believer's baptism is offered upon the child coming to faith. It deprives them of their first act of obedience.

And finally, do you believe baptism should be performed only by an ordained minister?

I think any believer can perform baptism.

This is a divisive subject, but I hope we can all discuss it with open minds and loving hearts.

 

[Redwingfan9]

Let's debate about this subject, how about it?

Element: Do you believe baptism should be performed only with water?

Formula: Do you believe baptism should be performed only in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?

Mode: Do you believe baptism should be performed only by immersion?

Recipient: Do you believe baptism should be performed only to believers?

And finally, do you believe baptism should be performed only by an ordained minister?

Element: scripture seems to suggest water only.
Formula: scripture includes in the name of the trinity and Jesus Christ, so either are acceptable even if the name of the trinity is preferred.
Mode: sprinkling is acceptable and something done in the Old Testament and likely done in the New Testament as well based on circumstances.
Recipient: Baptism is the new covenant version of circumcision, it applies to the entire household including newborns. We see several instances in Acts where the new believer and their household were baptized.
Performer: Baptism is an element of worship and should generally be performed as part of a church service, preferably performed by an elder (teaching or ruling).