Baptism

[GodLovesCats]

Show me where it says only an adult can be baptized. I am done with you enjoy ignore

Why do you want to ignore me for this? You might as well ignore everyone who disagrees with you if that is your attitude. I would be happy to show you where the Bible says only believers can be baptized, but it is downright stupid to do so if you will not see my post anyway.

Where on Earth did you get the idea I said only adults can be baptized? I said BELIEVERS.

 

[GodLovesCats]

As Trinitarians, we claim to believe the words of the Nicene-Constantinople Creed. The Creed says, "We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins." Unfortunately, many churches (both sacramental and anabaptist) require new members to get re-baptized. This is one reason that I don't believe in church membership.

Being Trinitarian only means wse are Christians. It is not about the Nicene-Constantinople Creed, which is written by sinners, but the Bible, which is written by God. The NCC is just an official document most of us likely never read. So whether people should be rebaptized or not is solely based on God's Word.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I agree, so those baptized with John's baptism were later baptized with believer Christian Baptism (a second baptism). The question then must be addressed is: infant baptism the same as adult believer baptism and if it is not than you might need to be baptized a second time?

One thing that drives me insane is people substituting adult for believer. What about all of the kids with a mental and spiritual ability to know Jesus? When people use the word adult they are saying no one under age 18 is capable of being a Christian and we all know that is obviously not true.

With that out of the way, the answer is no, infant baptism and believer baptism are not the same thing. A baby can only get his or her hair wet for safety reasons. John's baptism was a water dunk. So Biblically, a baby is not baptized the correct way. Therefore infant baptisms are void. They don't symbolize the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus or the decision to repent and be reborn.

 

[Albion]

Real Christianity is the Bible. If you want to talk about "real Christianity," you need to base your opinions on the Bible itself.

...which is exactly what traditionalist Christians do (in addition to having precedent on their side).

It wrong to insinuate that the way young people were baptized from the ancient church until the appearance of what is called "the Radical Reformation" of the 16th and 17th centuries was not done with Biblical support. In fact, if there were not some support in the Bible for both approaches to this subject, there wouldn't the controversy that we have.

 

[GodLovesCats]

...which is exactly what traditionalist Christians do (in addition to having precedent on their side).

It wrong to insinuate that the way young people were baptized from the ancient church until the appearance of what is called "the Radical Reformation" of the 16th and 17th centuries was not done with Biblical support. In fact, if there were not some support in the Bible for both approaches to this subject, there wouldn't the controversy that we have.

It would help if you can quote Scripture that specifies getting a baby's hair wet serves the same purposes that dunking a believer in a baptismal pool does and scientific research that proves babies can love Jesus.

 

[Albion]

It would help if you can quote Scripture that specifies getting a baby's hair wet serves the same purposes that dunking a believer in a baptismal pool does and scientific research that proves babies can love Jesus.

I will offer Scriptural evidence for the Baptism of people below the age of accountability if that is important to you. When it comes to a Christian sacrament, by the way, it is the word of God that matters more than what the scientific community theorizes.

Reading your post here, however, makes it look like you are more interested in taking the opportunity to lampoon the majority of Christians who hold to a view of the matter that differs from what you have been taught. I don't think that's right, even if there is a difference of opinion between Anabaptists and just about everybody else.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Are you assuming I am Anabaptist? I don't even know what they believe about baptism.

What I have been taught is God does not save people through water. So there is no way baptizing babies can serve any purpose.

 

[Albion]

Are you assuming I am Anabaptist? I don't even know what they believe about baptism.

I haven't made any assumptions about your denominational affiliation, if any, and it appears from your profile that you don't care to state what it might be. What you espouse, however, was invented by the Anabaptists and the word itself describes this belief, as a matter of fact.

What I have been taught is God does not save people through water.

Christ repeatedly used some physical property when teaching and healing or, in this case, instituting a sacrament. That is how we apprehend transcendent realities. But no one believes that we are saved by water (which point has been made on these forums many times already).

 

[bling]

One thing that drives me insane is people substituting adult for believer. What about all of the kids with a mental and spiritual ability to know Jesus? When people use the word adult they are saying no one under age 18 is capable of being a Christian and we all know that is obviously not true.

With that out of the way, the answer is no, infant baptism and believer baptism are not the same thing. A baby can only get his or her hair wet for safety reasons. John's baptism was a water dunk. So Biblically, a baby is not baptized the correct way. Therefore infant baptisms are void. They don't symbolize the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus or the decision to repent and be reborn.

I even say: “mature adults”, but do not put an age on it, but want to distinguish being mentally responsible people from children, mentally handicapped adults and even immature adults. How old did you have to be in order to be partly responsible for the Jews not going into the promises land the first time?

 

[ViaCrucis]

babies are not able to know Jesus.

Our Lord Jesus Christ says,

"Let the little children come to Me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 19:14

-CryptoLutheran

 

[charsan]

...which is exactly what traditionalist Christians do (in addition to having precedent on their side).

It wrong to insinuate that the way young people were baptized from the ancient church until the appearance of what is called "the Radical Reformation" of the 16th and 17th centuries was not done with Biblical support. In fact, if there were not some support in the Bible for both approaches to this subject, there wouldn't the controversy that we have.

Thank you. I have a way of muddling things up but you do a great job explaining and I can get to emotional sometimes.

 

[1213]

Hello I got baptized as a baby and raised up as a catholic but now I'm just a christian who just believe in what the bible says and not in the Catholic teaching but the bible says reprent and be Baptized and as a baby I didn't reprent or believed. Should I get baptised now when I believe I already have contact whit someone who can baptise me....

I think you should carefully think, what is the purpose of baptism. Jesus said:

Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mat. 28:19-20

According to that, the meaning is to make person a disciple of Jesus. So, if you have been baptized according to that, you are a disciple of Jesus and there is really no need for new baptism. More important I think is that you remain in the teachings of Jesus, because:

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

 

[GodLovesCats]

Our Lord Jesus Christ says,

"Let the little children come to Me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 19:14

So little children can go to heaven without being baptized.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I haven't made any assumptions about your denominational affiliation, if any, and it appears from your profile that you don't care to state what it might be. What you espouse, however, was invented by the Anabaptists and the word itself describes this belief, as a matter of fact.

I did not specify my denomination any further than Protestant because I do not fit in any of them. So all I am is a Protstant who leans Charismatic.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello I got baptized as a baby and raised up as a catholic but now I'm just a christian who just believe in what the bible says and not in the Catholic teaching but the bible says reprent and be Baptized and as a baby I didn't reprent or believed. Should I get baptised now when I believe I already have contact whit someone who can baptise me. And I want to be sure I got baptized and I'm Not sure. And 1 other question can you sell your soul? I have ocd and have alot of thoughts about it and it makes me a little bit scared and people say you need to sign a contract or something but do you need to sign that contract in real life or in your thoughts because when I found out you need to sign a Contract I got thoughts i was singing a contract and that is making me scared.. I always say my soul belongs to jesus and God. But still I'm scared can you sell your soul and if you can do you need to sign the contract in real life on paper or in your thoughts or imaging that you do it. And should I get baptized now.
Thank you
Kvg and my fear of the unforgivable sin is gone now I'm only scared that I sold my soul

1. As long as you feel the drawing of the Holy Spirit you are "alive" - you can always choose to follow His drawing. Almost every Christian here will agree to this Bible detail

2. The bible does teach believer's baptism which means one first repents and believes and then they are baptized. That is the Bible model and you can choose to follow it -- the choice is yours.

3. There are many superstitions and stories about signed contracts and other contrivances -- ignore them all. Read the Bible and follow the Holy Spirit's leading . The devil will always and forever be trying to sell you a "its too late for you" story line. Just shut him down by ignoring him.

 

[BobRyan]

So little children can go to heaven without being baptized.

True - but those who know enough to follow the light given in the Bible are held accountable for what they know and what they can actually do in following.

 

[BobRyan]

It's kinda like being circumsized...again. Or becoming a virgin again because your "first time" didn't work out so well.

Depends on whether baptism is the Bible kind that involves "an appeal to God for a clean conscience" 1 Peter 3 on the part of the person being baptized

or if it is instead some external physical no-commitment act like a clueless baby being circumcised involving no change at all in the baby's heart or soul or attitude or nature.

 

[Albion]

I did not specify my denomination any further than Protestant because I do not fit in any of them. So all I am is a Protstant who leans Charismatic.

The "leans" charismatic part seems a bit confusing, but thanks for the reply just the same.

 

[Albion]

Depends on whether baptism is the Bible kind that involves "an appeal to God for a clean conscience" 1 Peter 3 on the part of the person being baptized

or if it is instead some external physical no-commitment act like a clueless baby being circumcised involving no change at all in the baby's heart or soul or attitude or nature.

There's no reason to be crass when rejecting 2000 years of Christian belief and practice. Just say you don't believe in infant baptism if that is what Ellen G. White had to say on the subject.

 

[BobRyan]

. Just say you don't believe in infant baptism if that is what Ellen G. White had to say on the subject.

I prefer to quote from the Gospels and from 1 Peter 3 to show the NT form of Baptism - I hope that is ok