Baptism

[LittleLambofJesus]

The epistles of John are written to the baptized, though.

Those are also the ones that mention that mysterious "anti-christ"

1 John 2:18 Little-children, last hour it-is, and according-as ye hear, that the anti-christ is coming. And now anti-christs, many have become, whence we are knowing that last hour it-is. [Reve 1:7, 9:12, 11:14]

 

[anisavta]

The epistles of John are written to the baptized, though.

Jochanan was written to the Jewish community. They went to mikvot either around the Temple or in the Yardan (Jordan )river.

 

[Thekla]

Jochanan was written to the Jewish community. They went to mikvot either around the Temple or in the Yardan (Jordan )river.

Trinitarian mikvot, cool

 

[Meshavrischika]

Shouldn't we take into account your clear bias in your statement above?

Those I quoted got ther information from the available facts.

I'm not being quoted as a reliable source of factual information
The people you quoted would be shunned by the research community for making statements such as that which are VERY unprofessional and say NOTHING to the text itself for proof/verification or the opposite. It's crap opinions cited as fact.

 

[Meshavrischika]

Let me first ask you this; do you think Peter, who's word's were inspired by the Holy Ghost, was contradicting himself? That he taught something contradictory in Acts 3:19 from what he taught in Acts 2:38?

how do you know he was inspired at that moment? lol. people are people. show me a perfect person in every action and I'll show you a picture of Christ. no on else will do. Not even Peter.

 

[Meshavrischika]

one question:

Christ said to "go baptize..."; the apostles did.
Christ commanded, the apostles did as Christ commanded.
Faith means trust. The apostles did as Christ commanded, and instructed baptism, as an act of faith.

How then can we "arrange" baptism to be optional; it is commanded and if we trust (have faith), we do as commanded.

did he say go baptize in water? or do you believe it's just "implied"

 

[Meshavrischika]

and Baptism is a means Christ uses to do that.
We believe Christ saves.
Baptism is a "tool."

so God needs your help to save? or the help of water? funny, omnipotent and "need" don't usually go hand in hand

 

[Thekla]

did he say go baptize in water? or do you believe it's just "implied"

Christ said, "by water and spirit"

 

[Meshavrischika]

Jochanan was written to the Jewish community. They went to mikvot either around the Temple or in the Yardan (Jordan )river.

stands to reason since baptism is JEWISH and not some new fangled dipping in water

 

[Meshavrischika]

I've already argued that this does not mean what you think it does.

 

[Thekla]

so God needs your help to save? or the help of water? funny, omnipotent and "need" don't usually go hand in hand

what we have been commanded to do has been given for our need, not God's

... or why would God have commanded anything ?

 

[Meshavrischika]

what we have been commanded to do has been given for our need, not God's

... or why would God have commanded anything ?

because we have a need to justify ourselves and he was letting us to teach us a lesson (that we can't by any work)

 

[Thekla]

because we have a need to justify ourselves and he was letting us to teach us a lesson (that we can't by any work)

so, when Christ said "be following me...", He didn't mean it ?

 

[Celticflower]

so God needs your help to save? or the help of water? funny, omnipotent and "need" don't usually go hand in hand

The need is ours not God's. Man needs things he can point to or touch to make things real.

A lot of this thread could be taken as an argument for infant baptism. Since we are saved by grace thru faith and not works, and if that grace is imparted at baptism, who better than a helpless infant to baptise? It certainly is no work of their own.


**and the arguments go round and round -- wonder if they will go dow the drain when the bapistry plug is pulled?***

 

[Melethiel]

Baptism is and act.. For it is a verb and not a noun.. How can a prayer save me? Jesus said all who hear and believe.. Now can I believe without first as Peter having the Father reveal to me what was being preached? No,So when God revealed this to me and I agreed with Him then It was Christ who saved me..

Um...you're not reading my posts. I acknowledged that it is an act, but stipulated that it is God doing the acting. We're not told to baptize ourselves, but to BE baptize (passive voice).

So, you had to do the work of "agreeing"...and here I thought it was God who saves, not us by our works.

 

[Melethiel]

how do you know he was inspired at that moment? lol. people are people. show me a perfect person in every action and I'll show you a picture of Christ. no on else will do. Not even Peter.

So, you get to decide when in Scripture he's speaking with inspiration and when he's wrong? If you don't like it, you can ignore it?

 

[Melethiel]

so God needs your help to save? or the help of water? funny, omnipotent and "need" don't usually go hand in hand

God NEEDS nothing.
What God CHOOSES to do is another thing.
Your question is silly.
Why did God choose to have Moses make a bronze snake in the desert instead of just healing everyone?
Why did God tell Namaan to go wash in the river instead of just healing him?
Why did Jesus put mud on the blind man's eyes instead of just healing him?

Surely an omnipotent being doesn't need to use such petty things.

 

[Meshavrischika]

so, when Christ said "be following me...", He didn't mean it ?

I don't think he meant it like you take it.

 

[Meshavrischika]

God NEEDS nothing.
What God CHOOSES to do is another thing.
Your question is silly.
Why did God choose to have Moses make a bronze snake in the desert instead of just healing everyone?
Why did God tell Namaan to go wash in the river instead of just healing him?
Why did Jesus put mud on the blind man's eyes instead of just healing him?

Surely an omnipotent being doesn't need to use such petty things.

no it's not silly. Either we just need God and everything else is ceremonial at best, or we do not and can do it ourselves. There is no "us helping God". If no one ever lifted a hand again to baptise and if no one even said the word again, are you asserting that all rom that time forth who found God would lack salvation and the Holy Spirit because they didn't take a dunk?

 

[Meshavrischika]

So, you get to decide when in Scripture he's speaking with inspiration and when he's wrong? If you don't like it, you can ignore it?

no, but I don't expect perfection from any man, not even the apostles and not even things written by men (i.e. the bible)

again, I'll take God thanks. I don't need yours or anyone elses' but His light in my life as to what IS and IS NOT for me. Thankfully, I realize He doesn't need a book to lead His people. (there hasn't always been one after all)