Baptism

[JamesThaddeusMartin]

no, a lemming for any type of churchianity

God is my master, Scripture is His word, I am His lemming.

I hope you dont forsake fellowship and prayer with others...or is that a form of "churchianity"




pax

 

[Meshavrischika]

I'm not sure what you mean here, either. Could you explain ?

you said "born from above"
you equate water with rebirth
I was making a joke that the only water from above was rain. (it was a joke - I must not be good at them, this is the second one I've made in GT that I've had to explain)

 

[MamaZ]

Baptism with the Holy Spirit occurs only twice in the NT, with the Jewish Apostles in Acts 2 and Gentiles in Acts 10. This fulfilled Joel's prophecy when he said the Spirit of God would be poured out upon "all flesh". At Joel's time "all flesh" was made up of Jew and non-Jew--one was either a Jew or Gentile. So Christ baptized the apostles (Jews) and Cornelius (Gentile) so "all flesh", Jew and Gentile, was baptized with the HS and thus making Joel's prophecy fulfilled making baptism with the HS obsolete.

Anwer the queston then. If you have not the Spirit of Christ in you how can you be of His?

 

[Meshavrischika]

I read it...worth reposting



Christ being baptized is our example and we imitate Him....He didn't do these things for Himself you know.



pax

no, he did them as a good Jew observing Torah mitzvot because this was required for Him to be the perfect sacrificial lamb.

 

[Melethiel]

God is my master, Scripture is His word, I am His lemming.

I hope you dont forsake fellowship and prayer with others...or is that a form of "churchianity"




pax

 

[MamaZ]

no, he did them as a good Jew observing Torah mitzvot because this was required for Him to be the perfect sacrificial lamb.

He fulfilled the law..

 

[jmacvols]

first off, Matthew is said by scholars to have borrowed extensively from Mark. It's already been stated this section of Mark's gospel DOES NOT EXIST in the two earliest copies of it that we have. Hence, this is not even reliable text at all.

The evidence shows that Mk 16:9-20 is genuine. If you're going to question Mk 16:9-10 then you might as well question all that is missing from those two manuscripts.

 

[Meshavrischika]

God is my master, Scripture is His word, I am His lemming.

I hope you dont forsake fellowship and prayer with others...or is that a form of "churchianity"




pax

fellowhip/prayer does not equal only the attendance at a non profit building where people sit and stare at someone... it equals anything with other believers where these things happen.

God is my master
HIS HOLY SPIRIT is my Teacher
The scripture is a tool
and His Word has never stopped being given to believers

 

[Meshavrischika]

The evidence shows that Mk 16:9-20 is genuine. If you're going to question Mk 16:9-10 then you might as well question all of it.

What "evidence"? church records? lol.

I do question it all, because God and truth can make it through ANY scrutiny and still be seen as what they are. Anything that falls to the side is not either.

 

[jmacvols]

If you do not have the Holy Spirit which is your seal then how can you be one of His?

The Holy Spirit indwells in me through His word.

 

[Meshavrischika]

Jn 3:5 is water baptism, hence water baptism is necessary to enter the kingdom.

Water in Jn 3:5 means just that; water.

Jn 3:5------Spirit+++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>kingdom
1Cor12:13--Spirit+++++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>body

Note that kingdom and body are equal, they are both a saved position. Since there is but one way to be saved, no alternatives, then both of these verses MUST say the same thing, hence it takes Spirit + water baptism to put one in the kingdom/body (saved).

the scripture does not say WATER BAPTISM
it's begging the text to think it is

 

[jmacvols]

Are you saying that you don't have to believe in Christ to be saved? That all you have to do is be baptized?

Mk 16:16 says believe AND be baptized

 

[Meshavrischika]

and 16:9-20 aren't supportable as "real" scripture

 

[MamaZ]

Mk 16:16 says believe AND be baptized

So what are you believing in? That your baptism saves you?

 

[jmacvols]

I don't see why everyone can't just agree to disagree instead of "we're right" and "you're wrong". It's assenine. Again, the only reason I argue is because people refuse to allow others to stand in faith rather than walk under their version of law. Personally, I think NOTHING is essential but Christ. Period. I'm happy if you have meaning and cling to ceremony, but that doesn't make it right, not right for everyone, not right for anyone but the person who holds it dear. It's this attitude I hate, not people.

Because it is a matter of right and wrong. If something is right for one it is right for all, if it is wrong for one it is wrong for all. That's how truth works, there's no various 'versions' of truth.
You say "I think nothing is essential but Christ." What is that statement suppose to mean? Does that mean just because Christ exists you're 'saved'?

 

[MamaZ]

The Holy Spirit indwells in me through His word.

Please explain more for me here.. For I do not want to assume what you are saying.

 

[jmacvols]

What "evidence"? church records? lol.

I do question it all, because God and truth can make it through ANY scrutiny and still be seen as what they are. Anything that falls to the side is not either.

Historical manuscripts.

 

[Meshavrischika]

no. It is right that I use a transcription pedal? you need one? no. thought not.

I mean that as always it's a heart seeking after God and now through His son that matters, and always has mattered.

 

[Meshavrischika]

Historical manuscripts.

that aren't church related or from the church?

 

[jmacvols]

the scripture does not say WATER BAPTISM
it's begging the text to think it is

The bible does not contradict itself, so Jn 3:5 and 1 Cor 12:13 MUST HARMONIZE, therefore from both verses we see it takes Spirit and water baptism to be in the kingdom/body. Hence "baptize' in 1 COr 12:13 is equal to "water" in Jn 3:5, so we have water baptism.