Baptism

[jmacvols]

depends on how you view baptism, whether by water or spirit. Mark 16:16 proves nothing other than it is open to interpretation.

Mk 16:16 shows that belief and baptism are necessary before one can be saved.
To be fair, can I say anything you post here on CF is open to interpretation? So you cannot accuse anyone of misunderstanding you, misquoting you or putting words in your mouth? Fair enough?

 

[MamaZ]

We see also that many already had the Holy Spirit and that after this baptism they were baptized in water..

 

[Thekla]

As Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came down on them and they began to speak in tongues and to utter prophecies.

implies water baptism and Spirit baptism DO NOT HAPPEN CONCURRANTLY.

in the "historic" Churches, the laying on of hands is called "chrismation" "confirmation", etc

 

[JamesThaddeusMartin]

You say water baptism is for the remission of sins, remission of sins is equal to being saved, therefore water baptism saves, and Peter said as much, 1 Pet 3:21. Above you mention water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism. By the time Paul wrote the Ephesian epistle there was just one baptism, Eph 4:5, that one baptism being in effect today is water baptism in the name of the Lord for remission of sins.

And this is the plain truth of Scripture. Well said!




pax

 

[MamaZ]

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[Melethiel]

As Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came down on them and they began to speak in tongues and to utter prophecies.

implies water baptism and Spirit baptism DO NOT HAPPEN CONCURRANTLY.

"When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."
Remember, according to you, baptism means to "immerse." What were they immersed in, air?
It's quite obvious...they were given a Christian baptism, and as Paul laid his hands on them to confirm them, they received the Holy Spirit.

 

[JamesThaddeusMartin]

I'm just following Scripture, not man's logic.
"Repent and be baptized."
"Baptism now saves you."
"One Lord, one faith, one baptism."
"born of water and the Spirit."

pax

 

[Meshavrischika]

Yet more strawmen of the historic doctrine...would you bother even researching before condemning? There is not "water for sin and sacrifice for sin...somewhat redundant." The water is where the sacrifice is applied. Here, maybe this can explain better:

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Read the rest here: http://www.bookofconcord.com/largecatechism/6_baptism.html

first off, Matthew is said by scholars to have borrowed extensively from Mark. It's already been stated this section of Mark's gospel DOES NOT EXIST in the two earliest copies of it that we have. Hence, this is not even reliable text at all.

 

[MamaZ]

Well good luck with water saving you from anything.

 

[MamaZ]

If is is water that saves I guess that Jesus came to do what? Shed His water?

 

[Melethiel]

Well good luck with water saving you from anything.

Still the strawmen? I can see now that you have no intention of understanding the other side, only burning straw.

 

[JamesThaddeusMartin]

first off, Matthew is said by scholars to have borrowed extensively from Mark. It's already been stated this section of Mark's gospel DOES NOT EXIST in the two earliest copies of it that we have. Hence, this is not even reliable text at all.

Cherry-picking time





pax

 

[Meshavrischika]

in the "historic" Churches, the laying on of hands is called "chrismation" "confirmation", etc

in the "old days" - obviously before God knew what he was doing, laying on of hands indicated a deep investment in someone... that their burden was yours and you would treat it as such. Fathers did this to their children, friends to each other, husbands to wives. This is not exclusive in any way for confirmation or transference of the Holy Spirit. It was not unusual, and is not telling about "confirmation" or any such thing.

 

[Melethiel]

first off, Matthew is said by scholars to have borrowed extensively from Mark. It's already been stated this section of Mark's gospel DOES NOT EXIST in the two earliest copies of it that we have. Hence, this is not even reliable text at all.

This is called "I can't provide a good refutation, so I'm going to change the subject and claim Scripture isn't reliable."

 

[Meshavrischika]

Cherry-picking time





pax

no, it's called questioning rather than being a lemming.

 

[jmacvols]

Believing is what will give salvation. Not baptism. Yes of course I do believe that it is an act of Obedience for the fact of what Baptism signifies. But once again it is not the baptism that keeps you in or out of Gods Kingdom. It is the believing or not believing that will.. For Jesus said they are condemned already for they have not believed. Nothing about baptism in His speaking here..

But in post #143 you said water baptism is for the remission of sins

 

[Meshavrischika]

Still the strawmen? I can see now that you have no intention of understanding the other side, only burning straw.

As stated before, YOU are welcome to practice anything you like, it's when you claim as a group to be the ultimate authority and the ONLY right that you bring on arguments.

 

[Meshavrischika]

the verse doesn't say "born again", it says "born from above"

so standing in the rain works better? lol. I can use the REST of scripture can I not?

 

[jmacvols]

You say water baptism is for the remission of sins, remission of sins is equal to being saved, therefore water baptism saves, and Peter said as much, 1 Pet 3:21. Above you mention water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism. By the time Paul wrote the Ephesian epistle there was just one baptism, Eph 4:5, that one baptism being in effect today is water baptism in the name of the Lord for remission of sins. Baptism with the Holy Spirit is an obsolete baptism.[/quote]
you're kidding right

No, it was a prophecy of Joel that Christ fulfilled making it obsolete. Not a single vese in the bible promises you, me, nor anyone else this baptism.

 

[MamaZ]

Still the strawmen? I can see now that you have no intention of understanding the other side, only burning straw.

What am I suppose to see? You state that water is the saving power. That it is water baptism that saves.. Then you say stawman? LOL.. It is believing in Christ that saves. Not water baptism.. You have to believe in Christ in order to be saved. Baptism is an act of obedience after one has already believed and become saved. It is Christ who saves the sinner.. There is no other Gate but Jesus.. Not even water baptism is the gate to Gods Kingdom.