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Baptism

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by jukesk9, Apr 14, 2002.

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  1. jukesk9

    jukesk9 Dixie Whistlin' Papist

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    I just wanted to share this with you all since most of us from time to time engage in Apologetics. Yesterday, my little girl was baptized (she's 3 months old). During the ceremony, our priest gave a talk on why we baptize infants. It was interesting and something I hadn't heard before. In a nutshell, he talked about how in the Old Testament, women and children had no rights and were never put first. But then, Christ came and established the new covenant. In this new covenant, children are put first. He quoted Matthew 19:13-14, "Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people; but Jesus said, 'Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.'" He went on to talk about how by baptizing an infant, we are dedicating them to God. So, just thought you all might enjoy that tidbit. It was a good talk (of course I know there is more to why we baptize infants, but this was neat). God bless.....
     
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  2. Lizzi4Christ

    Lizzi4Christ I'm worth waiting for.

    +116
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    That's interesting, but that's not the way it should be. Baptism is for believers, people who have accepted Christ. Infants can't accept Him being so small and not able to reason. It's a public statement of accepting Christ. In the Bible, all that were baptised were baptized after believeing in Jesus Christ. Not wanting to start a fight, but I had to say that. :)
     
  3. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    Jukesk9--congratulations on the baptism of your baby.


    Lizzi:
    That's interesting, but that's not the way it should be. Baptism is for believers, people who have accepted Christ. Infants can't accept Him being so small and not able to reason. It's a public statement of accepting Christ. In the Bible, all that were baptised were baptized after believeing in Jesus Christ. Not wanting to start a fight, but I had to say that

    Here's how my Bible reads:

    Matt 28:19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

    Babies would fall under 'all nations'.

    Michelle
     
  4. supermagdalena

    supermagdalena The Shrubs and the Flan.

    +25
    Non-Denom
    Here's a question that has never been logically answered for me, please do so. If I was baptized before accepting Christ, and haven't been rebaptized, am I supposedly going to Hell? Is that baptism valid?
     
  5. Anise

    Anise New Member

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    From a Catholic perspective, a person only gets baptized once. So if you were once baptized in a valid way, you are not ever rebaptized, even if you feel that you weren't into it at the time. You receive an invisible spiritual mark when you are baptized, and it doesn't go away. But it could be that at a later time in your life, faith comes to you more fully and at that time you more truly participate in the grace of that sacrament in an after the fact sort of way. It is like the grace (or maybe fruit is better) lurks around waiting for you to accept it.

    However, if you as an adult were forced to be baptized against your will, it is not valid at all. But in a child, that doesn't apply.

    There is a distinction between receiving a sacrament in an unworthy manner (without being repentant and stuff) and receiving a sacrament invalidly. In the second case, you would repeat it, because you never had it to begin with.

    The Church does not teach that all unbaptized people are going to hell. But if you know that you were forced as an adult to be baptized, then you should seek the sacrament out to have it done now that you are a believer. I think it would be wrong not to go get baptized once you realize that you aren't already baptized and that you realize that you are supposed to get baptized.
     
  6. Lizzi4Christ

    Lizzi4Christ I'm worth waiting for.

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    Why doesn't it apply? Aren't children allowed to make their own decisions about their faith? I was baptized into the Catholic church as an infant and frankly it make me mad to think that someone would make a decision about MY faith like that. If you look in the Bible, every person who was baptized was baptized after hearing and accepting the Word of God. And as for "all nations" the context is to all the world, not ages of people.


    Which would God prefer, a infant who is baptized because they're parents are dedicating them to God or a person who wants to baptized because they themselves make the decision because they want the world to know they love God? Hmmmmmmm..... Parent's decision..person getting baptized decision....
     
  7. MissytheButterfly

    MissytheButterfly Back and Better than EVER!

    +5
    Receiving eternal life does not depend on being baptized in the Holy Spirit; for salvation is by grace through faith alone (Habakkuk 2:4; John 6:28, 29; Galatians 3:6; 5:6; Ephesians 2:8). It is a gift purchased for us by Christ when He was crucified. All we have to do is accept the gift. Just as the repentant thief on the cross next to Jesus was assured of entering paradise that very day we too are assured a place in heaven with the Father if we believe in Jesus Christ. It is most unfortunate that some have said, "Unless you have spoken in tongues you will not go to heaven." This is not true. It is contrary to the Scriptures.

    At the same time, although the Bible does not say the baptism in the Spirit is required for salvation, it does tell us that Christ commanded His first followers to wait for the Holy Spirit to come upon them (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:8). The Bible commands us to "be filled with the Spirit" (Ephesians 5:18). This personal encounter with the Holy Spirit should be sought and cherished by every believer. With it comes a new and fuller dimension of spiritual understanding and a flow of spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 2:9-13).
    According to the Bible, everyone (adult or child) who recognizes his or her need of a Savior and then repents and believes in Christ should be baptized (Acts 2:38,41; 8:36-38). But in the Scripture there is no record of infants or very young children being baptized. This is because they are not yet able to understand the need of a Savior.

    Yet God places a high priority on children. When asked who is the greatest in the kingdom of God, Jesus responded, "Unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 18:3). God’s love for children is also shown in the Old Testament. In Leviticus the Lord specifically prohibited the people of Israel from offering their children as a sacrifice to the pagan god, Molech (Leviticus 20:1-5). It seems fair to conclude that if God forbade children from being sacrificed, He would not order those same children to be placed in the eternal fire of hell. From these Scriptures I believe that children are loved by God, and until they come to an age of understanding (some call it "the age of accountability"), they have a place in the kingdom of God. This means that should a child die before developing to a point where the knowledge of Christ can be understood and applied through forgiveness, the child would inherit eternal life in heaven as an heir of God’s kingdom .

    In Luke 2 we see the parents of the baby Jesus taking Him to the temple "to present Him to the Lord" (Luke 2:22). Later the Gospels tell us that little children and infants were brought to Jesus for Him to touch them and bless them (Matthew 19:13-15; Mark 10:13-16; Luke 18:15-17). In following this practice, I think parents should be encouraged to publicly dedicate their children to the Lord. This is usually done in a church service. In dedicating their child the parents acknowledge the child as a gift from God and vow before Him and the congregation to set a godly example for the child and a commitment to lead the child to Christ at an early age.
     
  8. Nick_Loves_Abba

    Nick_Loves_Abba Bulls On Parade

    +45
    Christian
    I've yet to get baptised... but I'm saved, and baptised in the Holy Ghost, so I think I'm set.
     
  9. jukesk9

    jukesk9 Dixie Whistlin' Papist

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    Wow. Here I try to share this in a CATHOLIC forum and BAM...it starts,

    Thank God and praise God I'm Catholic. I didn't want to start a debate with this thread. If I'd had wanted to do that, I would've posted in the interfaith area.
     
  10. Anise

    Anise New Member

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    About children, if they are old enough to be able to refuse, then I don't think you should baptize them if they refuse. But a very small child, they cannot speak to refuse. I didn't mean that it didn't apply to a child of 12 who surely could refuse. I had in mind really little children for what I wrote. Sorry to be unclear about that.

    You said you were angry that your parents had you baptized as an infant because it was a decision about your faith. I think parents make all sorts of decisions for their children until the child is old enough to decide. Learning about the faith is one of them. I think if something is true, you should teach it to your child, so you should teach about Jesus and God to your child. It is not like being baptized as a tiny child makes it so you can't switch to being an atheist as an adult (or older child).

    Also, I think God had all those baby male Jewish people get circumcized by their parents at 8 days old. Their parents made that choice for them. Look at how Hannah was so happy that she gave her child Samuel to go be for the Lord under Eli. Samuel didn't pick that. I think it is biblical to make certain decisions for children.

    I think very much that God wants every person to love him of their own accord, but being baptized when small doesn't stop people from loving him. I think being raised in the faith will help with that, not hurt that.
     
  11. Annabel Lee

    Annabel Lee Beware the Thought Police

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    Congratulations on your daughter's baptism Jukes!

    None of my children were baptized as babies because I had left the Church. I consider it one of the biggest mistakes of my life.
    I'm back now and my youngest is in a two year RCIC program. She will be receiving her Sacraments during Easter Vigil next year.

    Annabel
     
  12. isshinwhat

    isshinwhat Pro Deo et Patria

    +605
    Eastern Orthodox
    jukesk9, congratulations on the Baptism of your daughter. Christ has done a great thing for her and you his Co-worker. May he bless her and you continually.

    Neal
     
  13. onesheep

    onesheep Sheep that looks like Bob

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    jukes, congratulations on your daughter's baptism! What a happy occasion that is for you and your family. :)

    Annabel, how old are your children?
     
  14. Avila

    Avila Boohoo moomoo, cebu

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    Congrats jukes!!!! What a wonderful day for you!!! :)
     
  15. Annabel Lee

    Annabel Lee Beware the Thought Police

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    They are 23, 16 and 7. All girls.

    I know..I've turned the spacing of children into an artform. They were all born in different decades too.

    I've figured out that I will be mother to at least one minor child for 34 years.

    Annabel
     
  16. onesheep

    onesheep Sheep that looks like Bob

    987
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    ROFLOL! Hey, you aren't the only one I know that did that. :) My mom had 8 kids (7 girls) so she was the parent of a minor for 31 years. Now she just sits back and laughs at her grandchildren getting even for her. :D

    My parish is only 2 years old and we hold Mass in middle school. They have the parents in charge of the child's religious education with the help of the RCIA instructor for adults. :eek: How scary would that be if I had kids and had to do it?
     
  17. jukesk9

    jukesk9 Dixie Whistlin' Papist

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    Thanks for the congrats!!!!!
     
  18. Avila

    Avila Boohoo moomoo, cebu

    +4
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    Annabel & onesheep - My sis is 42 & I'm 24. We're the bookends to the 2 boys. Mom & Dad had minors under their roof for 36 years! :)
     
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