Baptism: Who can do it?

[lands21]

Seems baptism is a hot topic lately....

So who can baptise? Can anyone baptise as long as they are a believer? John the Baptist had no education or authority from the church? Who is qualified?

For those that believe that baptism is a requirement for salvation, this is crutial because the person is "giving" you salvation are they not? What if an "un qualified" person baptises you?

If you believe in Adult baptism as a requirement for salvation, who determines you are ready to accept salvation? Who is qualified?

And who was qualified to qualify them?

Please back your awnsers with scripture.

Thank you, and God bless.

 

[k4c]

Seems baptism is a hot topic lately....

So who can baptise? Can anyone baptise as long as they are a believer? John the Baptist had no education or authority from the church? Who is qualified?

For those that believe that baptism is a requirement for salvation, this is crutial because the person is "giving" you salvation are they not? What if an "un qualified" person baptises you?

If you believe in Adult baptism as a requirement for salvation, who determines you are ready to accept salvation? Who is qualified?

And who was qualified to qualify them?

Please back your awnsers with scripture.

Thank you, and God bless.

Understanding baptism

As we grow in God’s word we will begin to see how in God’s word there is a literal understanding (outward) and a spiritual understanding (inward). We will also begin to see how God uses created things to help us understand spiritual truths.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

To begin this study lets look at a verse in Ephesians to help us understand baptism.

Ephesians 4:4-6, There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

In this verse God is speaking about one baptism. Do you think He is referring to the water baptism?

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Do you think that being placed under water is the baptism of the Holy Ghost He is referring to here or is it something other than the water baptism?

Remember that all throughout God’s word He uses created things to help us understand spiritual truth. For example when we read this in, John 6:54.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Do you think Jesus was referring to His literal flesh and blood?

He tells us a couple of verses later how He was speaking.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

He tells us that He was speaking spiritually when He referred to His flesh and blood.

When God’s word speaks of the one baptism He is referring to the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit in our born again experience. This baptism of the Holy Spirit is found in Luke 3:16.

Luke 3:16 John the Baptist answered, saying to them all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

This is the one baptism God spoke of in Ephesians 4:4-6. This is the one that is require in order to restore our relationship with God. It’s the baptism that cleans our conscience from the affects sin.

But there is another understanding behind baptism which means to teach.

Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul spoke about not coming to baptize with water but to preach (teach), to baptize with words, the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Water baptism is a shadow of what God's word was going to do inwardly.

When we are taught the word of God it washes us just as water would wash our bodies (literal) the word washes our minds (spiritual).

God equates water with His word to help us understand what God's word will do in our lives.

Ephesians 5:26-27 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The truth of the matter is, if you have not been cleansed by the Holy Spirit baptism and are not being daily washed by the word, your water baptisim ready doesn't mean much.

So now the big question.

Do we need to be baptized to be saved? The answer is, yes.

We need the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Can there be a desire within us to be bapized with water as an expression of the inward work of the Holy Spirit?

The answer is, yes.

Should we fulfill this desire? The answer is yes, if the desire is because we love God and not because of a belief that it's a requirement to be saved.

There is a good example of this in Acts 10:43-48. We Find Peter teaching (washing with words) a man named Cornelius, as Peter was teaching (washing) Cornelius and his family were baptized with the Holy Spirit. After receiving the Holy Spirit they were baptized with water.

Acts 10:43-48 Every person who commits himself to Jesus will be forgiven through the authority of Jesus. All of the prophets say that this is true . . . .'' While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came upon all those people who were listening to his speech. The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed. They were shocked because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on people who were not Jewish. These Jewish believers heard them speaking different languages and praising God. Then Peter said, "Can we refuse to allow these people to be immersed in water? They have received the Holy Spirit the same as we did!'' So, Peter commanded that Cornelius and his relatives and friends be immersed by the authority of Jesus the Messiah. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Praise God for His truth...

For thoughs of you who are still unsure of what true baptism is and feel a need to be baptised in water but are unable to do so, don't worry. If you truly understand your need for a savior and you call upon Jesus to save you then He has already fulfilled all the righteous requirements for you.

Matthew 3:13-15 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. And John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?'' But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.'' Then he allowed Him.

Remember that our relationship with our heavenly Father is based on our obedience to His Son for He is Lord of the Sabbath and He keeps us in fellowship with our heavenly Father. If the Lord has placed it on your heart to be water baptized then by all means do it. To be obedient to the Holy Spirit conviction is abiding in Christ and this pleases our heavenly Father.

So you see, to get all wrapped up in these debates about whether one should be submersed or sprinkled is missing the true meaning of the baptism that sets you free.

John 8:32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.''

Blessings in Christ,
John

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Seems baptism is a hot topic lately....

So who can baptise? Can anyone baptise as long as they are a believer? John the Baptist had no education or authority from the church? Who is qualified?.

The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon. In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, can baptize, by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes, and to apply the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation( I Tim 2:4.) - The Catechism of the Catholic Church 1256

For those that believe that baptism is a requirement for salvation, this is crutial because the person is "giving" you salvation are they not?...

No they are not... God is.

 

[revrobor]

Jesus gave the command to baptize to the Disciples and, in turn, to all His followers. There is no Scripture to support the idea that it must be done by some church official.

 

[wonder111]

Understanding baptism

As we grow in God’s word we will begin to see how in God’s word there is a literal understanding (outward) and a spiritual understanding (inward). We will also begin to see how God uses created things to help us understand spiritual truths.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

To begin this study lets look at a verse in Ephesians to help us understand baptism.

Ephesians 4:4-6, There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

In this verse God is speaking about one baptism. Do you think He is referring to the water baptism?

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Do you think that being placed under water is the baptism of the Holy Ghost He is referring to here or is it something other than the water baptism?

Remember that all throughout God’s word He uses created things to help us understand spiritual truth. For example when we read this in, John 6:54.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Do you think Jesus was referring to His literal flesh and blood?

He tells us a couple of verses later how He was speaking.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

He tells us that He was speaking spiritually when He referred to His flesh and blood.

When God’s word speaks of the one baptism He is referring to the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit in our born again experience. This baptism of the Holy Spirit is found in Luke 3:16.

Luke 3:16 John the Baptist answered, saying to them all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

This is the one baptism God spoke of in Ephesians 4:4-6. This is the one that is require in order to restore our relationship with God. It’s the baptism that cleans our conscience from the affects sin.

But there is another understanding behind baptism which means to teach.

Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul spoke about not coming to baptize with water but to preach (teach), to baptize with words, the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Water baptism is a shadow of what God's word was going to do inwardly.

When we are taught the word of God it washes us just as water would wash our bodies (literal) the word washes our minds (spiritual).

God equates water with His word to help us understand what God's word will do in our lives.

Ephesians 5:26-27 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The truth of the matter is, if you have not been cleansed by the Holy Spirit baptism and are not being daily washed by the word, your water baptisim ready doesn't mean much.

So now the big question.

Do we need to be baptized to be saved? The answer is, yes.

We need the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Can there be a desire within us to be bapized with water as an expression of the inward work of the Holy Spirit?

The answer is, yes.

Should we fulfill this desire? The answer is yes, if the desire is because we love God and not because of a belief that it's a requirement to be saved.

There is a good example of this in Acts 10:43-48. We Find Peter teaching (washing with words) a man named Cornelius, as Peter was teaching (washing) Cornelius and his family were baptized with the Holy Spirit. After receiving the Holy Spirit they were baptized with water.

Acts 10:43-48 Every person who commits himself to Jesus will be forgiven through the authority of Jesus. All of the prophets say that this is true . . . .'' While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came upon all those people who were listening to his speech. The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed. They were shocked because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on people who were not Jewish. These Jewish believers heard them speaking different languages and praising God. Then Peter said, "Can we refuse to allow these people to be immersed in water? They have received the Holy Spirit the same as we did!'' So, Peter commanded that Cornelius and his relatives and friends be immersed by the authority of Jesus the Messiah. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Praise God for His truth...

For thoughs of you who are still unsure of what true baptism is and feel a need to be baptised in water but are unable to do so, don't worry. If you truly understand your need for a savior and you call upon Jesus to save you then He has already fulfilled all the righteous requirements for you.

Matthew 3:13-15 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. And John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?'' But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.'' Then he allowed Him.

Remember that our relationship with our heavenly Father is based on our obedience to His Son for He is Lord of the Sabbath and He keeps us in fellowship with our heavenly Father. If the Lord has placed it on your heart to be water baptized then by all means do it. To be obedient to the Holy Spirit conviction is abiding in Christ and this pleases our heavenly Father.

So you see, to get all wrapped up in these debates about whether one should be submersed or sprinkled is missing the true meaning of the baptism that sets you free.

John 8:32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.''

Blessings in Christ,
John

John, this was one of if not the best post I've ever read on these forums. Every word spoke such truth to me.

thank you for your wisdom!

 

[He put me back together]

The truth of the matter is, if you have not been cleansed by the Holy Spirit baptism and are not being daily washed by the word, your water baptisim ready doesn't mean much.

So now the big question.

Do we need to be baptized to be saved? The answer is, yes.

We need the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Can there be a desire within us to be bapized with water as an expression of the inward work of the Holy Spirit?

The answer is, yes.

Should we fulfill this desire? The answer is yes, if the desire is because we love God and not because of a belief that it's a requirement to be saved.

There is a good example of this in Acts 10:43-48. We Find Peter teaching (washing with words) a man named Cornelius, as Peter was teaching (washing) Cornelius and his family were baptized with the Holy Spirit. After receiving the Holy Spirit they were baptized with water.

Acts 10:43-48 Every person who commits himself to Jesus will be forgiven through the authority of Jesus. All of the prophets say that this is true . . . .'' While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came upon all those people who were listening to his speech. The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed. They were shocked because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on people who were not Jewish. These Jewish believers heard them speaking different languages and praising God. Then Peter said, "Can we refuse to allow these people to be immersed in water? They have received the Holy Spirit the same as we did!'' So, Peter commanded that Cornelius and his relatives and friends be immersed by the authority of Jesus the Messiah. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Praise God for His truth...

John

Hey, folks--John, I think your post is eloquent, and soft to the ears lest anyone be offended. I agree with you that if water baptism is not concurrent with what is happening with us spiritually, it is rather futile. I would like to hear your comments on this matter, however: From reading the book of Acts, we know for certain that the baptism of the Holy Spirit does not always come at the moment of belief--in most of the cases that we read in Acts, the believer(s) recieved the Spirit some time after they believed--very often after days of prayer (in Paul's case, blindness). In your Acts 10 example, those being baptised had recieved the Holy Spirit beforehand. But what about the Samaritans in Acts 8?

"12But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into[3] the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. "

These believers had been baptised in water before they recieved the Holy Spirit. I believe we are in agreement about what water baptism represents, but is it wrong or futile to baptise a believer in water before he has been baptised in the Spirit? Or is being a believer who is seeking the Holy Spirit enough?

 

[He put me back together]

To throw in my two cents about Jeff's question, it seems to me that there is no scriptural qualification that any Spirit-filled child of God must go through to baptise in water, save God's command. The apostles in Acts made haste to baptise in water (much more haste than I see in many of our churches today, except possibly those who consider it a marking point of salvation). We are called to preach the good news to the nations, and preaching the good news includes this:
"19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
--Matt 28, 19-20
If we go to the byways and the corners, in the streets and everywhere where there ISN'T a bishop or a temple, are we to bring the new believers BACK to a place where we've built a temple and have ordained a bishop, for them to be baptised, or should we simply bring them to a place where there is water?

 

[Rafael]

Good post K4C. What is of spirit and what is of flesh, very well defined. Baptizm is a matter of the heart, but we should try and make our confession before witnesses when possible. There is no need to hinder and restrict God's grace and ability with extra rules that the Pharisees were famous for hounding Jesus about.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

The question is do you believe in


John 6:29.. This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom He sent.


then you would understand


1 cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jew or Gentile, whether we bond or free, and have been made to drink into one Spirit

 

[lands21]

So then anyone can baptise, as it is just a symbol of the greater baptism that comes from the Holy Spirit?

 

[k4c]

Hello to all,
I hope this e-mail finds you all in the joy of the Lord. When we read the bible we have to understand that the Apostles didn't have a complete understanding of all they were doing.

1 Corinthians 7:40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

I believe there were many signs given to them and the people around them to authenticate not only their calling but their words as well. I believe they had to grow daily as we do even though they had a special anointing to bring the gospel message to all. I believe many of the things that they were taught prior to receiving the Holy Spirit were shadows of what was to come such as water baptism. I also believe they carried much of these shadows over to their preaching along with much of their traditions until the Holy Spirit matured them in God's inward truth.

Acts 10:12-15 Wherein were all manner of four footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

When we become born again or born from above, we also bring into our relationship with God our understanding of these shadows along with our own traditions. The Holy Spirit will teach and reveal the deep things of God and the true meaning of these things that are called shadows of things to come.

Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

When the Spirit of God begins to teach us we have to be willing to receive what the Spirit is saying. The Spirit of God will bring us out of the shadows of things to come into a living relationship with inward truth Himself, Jesus.

Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

As we study God's word we need to seek the Lord for the inward understanding of His word, we need to let the Spirit confirm His truth to our hearts. If we just read the bible at face value it will not bring life.

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The new covenant is spiritual, inward. God love us and has such a desire to bring us to maturity, into the image of His Son, inwardly.

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Blessings to you all in Christ,
John