Baptism to be Saved?

[Avelina777]

Tradition in and of itself doesn't make void the word of God. If we ignore God's word in favor for the sake of tradition that's the problem. However, Scripture itself tells us to abide by the tradition which the Apostles delivered to the churches. The Canon of Scripture itself is something we receive as Tradition, as the Bible doesn't explicitly offer us a Canon.

Tradition is fine, and in and of itself is good and beneficial, the problem comes if and when Tradition and Scripture come into conflict, if and when that happens Scripture trumps Tradition. That's, in effect, what was originally meant by Sola Scriptura. Sola Scriptura doesn't mean ignoring Christian Tradition, it means that Scripture alone is the final appeal, where we receive God's word.

-CryptoLutheran

Crypto it actually says in the Bible traditions make void the word of God.

Mark 7: 5-13 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[Panevino]

2thes2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

[Avelina777]

2thes2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Yet in Mark 7 I believe it says traditions make void the word of God.

 

[Panevino]

Yet in Mark 7 I believe it says traditions make void the word of God.

The discussion in mark 7 revolves around a dismissal of God commandments via the traditions mentioned (ie tweaking of honour mother /father mark7:11) . A way of cheating or disregarding negating the commandements.

The traditions refered to in2thess2:15 obviously don't have this aim/outcome.

Ie not all tradition is automatically bad.

 

[wkmt2819]

As both a former Lutheran and a former evangelical Protestant, I struggled with reconciling their different teachings about baptism. One claims it is only a symbol and the other claims baptism also freely offers God’s graces. I believe both views are supported by scripture but it is only possible for one of the views to be true. (However I believe the Lutheran (sacramental) view held by most Christians to be the more biblical). This was a real struggle for me and I believe the way to best reconcile this is to look at what was taught by the Apostles.

I have diligently searched the extra-biblical writings of the early Church and can find absolutely no evidence to support the evangelical Protestant view. I have asked for this evidence on several different Christian forums and no one (including many pastors and seminary students) has been able to provide any evidence. This lack of evidence seems to continue all the way up to the time of the Reformation. The earliest evidence of what modern-day evangelical Protestants and Baptists believe about baptism seems to have originated from the Anabaptists around the 15 th century. The Reformers condemned their views. Furthermore, it appears that the original Reformers had views of baptism that are very closely aligned with the Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican churches.

I have looked at the various early confessions of the Reformers and observed the following beliefs:

According to the Westminster Confession of Faith:
- Baptism is efficacious
- The graces of baptism are conferred by the Holy Spirit
- It admits the recipient into the visible Church
- It is a sign and seal of ingrafting into Jesus Christ
- It is a sign and seal of regeneration
- It is a sign and seal of the remission of sins
- Pouring and sprinkling of water are just as acceptable as immersion
- Infants of believing parents are to be baptized
- It is a great sin to neglect baptism
- Baptism is only to be administered once
(source with biblical proofs (sorry but I can’t post links yet): www “dot” reformed “dot” org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/ )

According to the Belgic Confession of Faith (Presbyterian and Calvinist beliefs):
- Baptism replaces circumcision
- By baptism one is received into the Church and set apart from all other people
- Baptism washes and cleanses the recipient because of the Blood of Christ
- Baptism transforms the recipient from being a child of wrath to a child of God
- Anyone who aspires to reach eternal life ought to be baptized only once
- Baptism is profitable not only when the water is on us and when we receive it but throughout our entire lives.
- The belief of the Anabaptists (same as Baptists and evangelical Protestants) is in error.
- Children ought to be baptized and sealed with the sign of the covenant
- Christ has shed his blood no less for washing the little children of believers than he did for adults.
- Baptism does for our children what circumcision did for the Jewish people. That is why Paul calls baptism the "circumcision of Christ."
(source: www “dot” reformed “dot” org/documents/index.html)

The French Confession of Faith:
- by it we are grafted into the body of Christ, so as to be washed and cleansed by his blood, and then renewed in purity of life by his Holy Spirit.
- we say, upon the authority of Jesus Christ, that the children of believing parents should be baptized.
(source: www “dot” creeds “dot” net/reformed/frconf.htm)

Scot’s Confession:
- we utterly condemn the vanity of those who affirm the sacraments to be nothing else than naked and bare signs.
- we assuredly believe that by Baptism we are engrafted into Christ Jesus
(source: www “dot” crivoice “dot” org/creedscots.html)



I haven’t read all of the posts in this thread but just wanted to offer this up for consideration.

Peace

 

[Stealth001]

Is water baptism a commandment of Scripture... or is it of men?

 

[greatdivide46]

Is water baptism a commandment of Scripture... or is it of men?

It's a commandment of Scripture (see Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16).

 

[Lee52]

Originally Posted by Stealth001

Is water baptism a commandment of Scripture... or is it of men?​

​

It's a commandment of Scripture (see Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16).

Many congregations, including mine, teach that baptism is a commandment upon accepting Jesus as savior and LORD. My affiliation differentiates between salvation through Christ Jesus, and baptism, which is an ordinance for the already saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Baptism is a act of outward worship to show publicly an inward change in one that took place through acceptance of Jesus' blood washing.

Be blessed,
Lee52

 

[greatdivide46]

[/indent]

Many congregations, including mine, teach that baptism is a commandment upon accepting Jesus as savior and LORD. My affiliation differentiates between salvation through Christ Jesus, and baptism, which is an ordinance for the already saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Baptism is a act of outward worship to show publicly an inward change in one that took place through acceptance of Jesus' blood washing.

Be blessed,
Lee52

I guess that's good that your denomination teaches that. However, I desire to follow God and His word and not what a denomination teaches. And I don't see what your denomination teaches in the word of God. At least not with regard to baptism.

 

[Lee52]

I guess that's good that your denomination teaches that. However, I desire to follow God and His word and not what a denomination teaches. And I don't see what your denomination teaches in the word of God. At least not with regard to baptism.

That's why this is "Denomination-specific Theology" thread...... You have yours and I have mine, and we both believe that they are true. I can find Scriptures to support my chosen denomination's view on this and you can find Scriptures to support your denomination's position on it. So, let's just leave it at that.

Be blessed,
Lee52