Baptism (questions about scriptures dealing with)

[OnederWoman]

Hi all...

I had a question thrown out to me by a Mormon about Baptism. (originally we were talking about baptising the dead, which of course I do not believe in). Then she asked how I could not believe you have to be baptised to be saved and gave me these scripture references.

Mark 16:16-Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

(for the Mark scripture I know that it does NOT say that the non-baptised will be condemned, but what about the first part?)

John 3:5-Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

(ok, if I remember correctly, this isn't speaking of baptism, but of physically being born from your Mother... the first birth... and then being saved, the second birth. but any help making this clearer to see and understand would be appreciated)

1Pet 3:21- and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

(the above are all NIV, with the 1 Peter scripture the ampliphied version is easier to understand, but I want to be able to explain this without the extra... since I don't know that a Mormon would be accepting of what the ampliphied version of the Bible says)

So, not being the best of Bible scholars (I know what I believe, but I'm still learning and I don't have all the ansers for sure) I haven't responded to her yet because although these don't change what I believe, how do you explain that that are NOT saying you have to be baptised to be saved?

 

[InquisitorKind]

OnederWoman,

I recommend the following article, specifically for Mark 16:16:

http://www.tektonics.org/baptismneed.html

In addition, I also found the following to be very helpful:

http://members.aol.com/jasonte/baptism.htm

~Matt

 

[Baptistgal]

Hi!

First we have to start with the premise that the Bible doesn't contradict itself, so if you look and see that something looks like a contradiction than you search further and see if God sheds any light on it in any other passages, or further on in that same passage.

If you look at Mark 16:16 you see that the end of the verse clarifies what really brings salvation. "he that believeth not shall be damned." It was the belief in the first part of the verse that saves the person. I'm being simplistic here, but that fact is borne out in many other verses that talk only about belief bringing salvation. Point out to your friend that if God included baptism in salvation than He logically would have included baptism in every verse that talks about salvation. He does include belief in every salvation verse though.

John 3:5 is in context of a whole discussion Jesus was having with Nicodemus about how to be saved. When Jesus said Nicodemus had to be born again, Nicodemus mentioned the first birth.....water birth.....and wondered how he could be born of water again. Jesus clarified it for him by saying first you are born of water.....physical birth from the womb.....and in that same sense you must also be born spiritually....by the Holy Spirit....in order to be saved.

1 Peter 3:21 clearly calls baptism a "like figure." It is the picture of what is happening to us spiritually. Its the baptism of the Holy Spirit....we are spiritually being buried and raised again anew in the act of salvation. The physical action of going down into the water and being lifted back up again is a "like figure" or picture of what the HOly SPirit has done to us spiritually.

I hope this helps you in your conversation with your friend.

Baptistgal

 

[Svt4Him]

Baptism is unto repentance. "Repent and believe". Repentance is needed for salvation, that's the message of the Bible.

 

[themessage88]

Oneder Woman,

I think to answer the questions that you have we have to take a look at what baptism really is. It comes from the word "Baptizo" which means to submerge, or immerse.

The picture of immersing is relevant as it indicates a burial of our old sinful nature and we are identified with the burial and resurrection of Jesus. (Romans 6:1-4)

So basically when you accept Jesus into your heart you are saved.

Prime EXAMPLE: When Jesus was on the cross the man to his left said to him "Remeber me when you come into your kingdom." Jesus replied "Surely, you will be with me in paradise." That says that you do not need to be baptised to go to heaven.

Baptism is obedience to the command of Jesus. (Matthew 28:18-20)

As far as the verse in Matthew 16:16 the believing part is being saved (it comes first), then you are baptised because of obedience. Baptism does not save you, Jesus does.

I hope that clears some things up! Godspeed!