Baptism in Matthew 28:19.

Albion · Feb 9, 2013

StevePage said:
There are many reasons why baptism means immersion and that it is essential.

There are several, not many. For one, there is the symbolism involved, but that doesn't make it obligatory or exclusive. There is the guidance of the Didache--which described both methods as OK. And there is the familiar mistranslation of the word that immersion-only folks like to rely upon. That about covers the field.

OldStudent · Feb 11, 2013

StevePage said:
I understand you, however nothing changes, in fact my point is shown to be even more valid. In the context, Jesus is telling men what they must do. Men are unable to baptize any other person with the Spirit of God, only God baptizes with the Spirit. Jesus can only be speaking about water immersion, according to the context and the meaning of the words in the original language.

In the sense you are thinking you are right. There is certainly a role of the Holy Spirit in baptism that is exclusively His. AND there are roles given us in baptism certainly with water. BUT Here is where I am camping for the moment. It is valuable to bear in mind that words often have multiple definitions or applications. In this passage of Matthew it seems that there is a place for each of the definitions. Perhaps it is even multi-dimensional.

It is recorded in Matthew 5:48 Jesus said, Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. If we consider Jesus perfect, He is pointing over His head to His Father as our model. That would seem to be WAY over our head. Yet He is not foisting a hoax on us. If you consider what He is saying before this He is illustrating respect and love even for those who are thoughtless, even abusive of us. One of the most blatant examples of this is seen in the story of the woman taken in adultery (Jn 8). Her accusers had set a trap for her that they might have a tool to entrap Jesus. They threw her in front of Jesus thinking He had no way out. However, He ever so gently personally convicted each of the accusers so they knew that if they pressed their point He had the goods to blow them out of the water. Yet He didnt. He gave them a way out. They sensed from Him loving grace they didn't deserve. Was she guilty as well? Yes. But Jesus gave her an out and a way up. Then there is Jesus on the cross, Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do Lk 23:34. We hear similar language from Stephen (Acts 7:60). This compassion figured into the conversion of Saul, many priests, many of the general population. Jesus, Stephen, the disciples (inclusive beyond the 11) extended, surrounded them in such compassionate love many could not resist. As the disciples were reaching out to those around them, the Holy Spirit was lending His power reaching into the peoples hearts setting home what they are trying to say.

Most of us have never seen, been in the presence of, or personally been embraced in such love. So it doesnt even enter our head that WE can be instruments of such love in surrounding others in love to introduce them to the Source of such love. This is what I see embedded Matthew 28:19 as the baptism Jesus is describing that will lead people to become His disciples. Water baptism is like a wedding it is a public statement of a commitment already made. Much has happened preceding it.

I sure hope I am not out in the left field bushes on this.

Baptism in Matthew 28:19.

Albion

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OldStudent

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Baptism in Matthew 28:19.

Albion

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