Baptism/Born Again - the same?

[SumTinWong]

Baptism, imho, seems to play a bigger role in Baptist Churches then it does in others, because the whole congregation witnesses it--wether it be in a tub, pool, or in the river. It is a celebration because it testifies that someone believes in The Lord.

So, it is a symbol, but it is a powerfu symbol, and should not be under estimated.

It is also a great place and time to witness.

Hey everyone look at me and the dog I have been. I bury it here and now with Christ. I can't tell you how good that felt.

 

[JOYfulbeliever]

I bury it here and now with Christ. I can't tell you how good that felt.

Amen! Isn't that the truth!

Baptism is an outward profession of an inward faith...

 

[Carrye]

Thank you all for your responses - this is all very helpful. Now to work through this baptism thing a little more:

Water baptism isn't necessary for salvation.

This is Catholic belief as well.

However, God commands it

He does indeed.

It is symbolic, however, and does not equate to salvation.

I guess I'm having a hard time with the symbolism. I understand what you believe, I think, but don't really understand why it's done if it doesn't accomplish anything. You might say that it does accomplish something - a witness to God, but that can be (and is) done in other ways as well.

Maybe I just need to better understand the notion of symbolism within Baptist practice. What other symbols do you all use?

While I don't believe that works will save you in any way shape or form,

Nor do Catholics. This will surprise a few people, I bet.

after one is saved, there should be evidence of their salvation in their daily life - you should see Christ through their life - and through their works.

Absolutely. Action follows being, as Aristotle likes to point out.

 

[Cary.Melvin]

Amen! Isn't that the truth!

Baptism is an outward profession of an inward faith...

Why does God want us to use Baptism as an outward profession of faith? If God wants us to profess our faith, why don't we just do that? So what is the point of someone dunking you in water in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Just becuase He ordered us to do so? Does God find wet humans amusing for some reason?

 

[@@Paul@@]

Why does God want us to use Baptism as an outward profession of faith? If God wants us to profess our faith, why don't we just do that? So what is the point of someone dunking you in water in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Just becuase He ordered us to do so? Does God find wet humans amusing for some reason?

It's tradition. ........... Just like a Baptist "potluck".

 

[jenptcfan]

Why does God want us to use Baptism as an outward profession of faith? If God wants us to profess our faith, why don't we just do that? So what is the point of someone dunking you in water in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Just becuase He ordered us to do so? Does God find wet humans amusing for some reason?

Him ordering us to do so is reason enough for me.

 

[Carrye]

So what is the point of someone dunking you in water in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

Do Baptists baptize in the name of the Trinity? I thought I'd heard that many Baptists don't accept "Catholic baptism."

 

[SumTinWong]

Do Baptists baptize in the name of the Trinity? I thought I'd heard that many Baptists don't accept "Catholic baptism."

My Pastor said I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[theseed]

Do Baptists baptize in the name of the Trinity? I thought I'd heard that many Baptists don't accept "Catholic baptism."

Yes we baptize in the Name of The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (or Spirit).

 

[JOYfulbeliever]

Him ordering us to do so is reason enough for me.

That's it exactly

 

[jenptcfan]

Do Baptists baptize in the name of the Trinity? I thought I'd heard that many Baptists don't accept "Catholic baptism."

I haven't heard it referred to as "Catholic baptism" in Baptist circles (though I don't doubt that someone might have said that). Baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is referred to by Jesus in the Great Commission. I think that's why we do it that way.

 

[kayanne]

We are baptized simply because God commands it. Does he find it amusing to see us get wet?---well probably not as amusing as many of the other things we do!
God said to, so we do. Case closed.
The symbolism that we associate with baptism comes from the 6th chapter of Romans. I'll admit that nowhere in scripture does it specifically say that "baptism is an outward sign of an inward faith," but it is, I believe, a reasonable implication from scripture. But again, the only important reason we are baptized is because God commands us to be.

 

[jenptcfan]

Are we not children of God? Is not God our father who teaches us so that we can be made righteous? What good is it to me or God that I be dunked in water in the name of God if it does not do anything? Why would God tell us to do something without reason to do so? Are we just slaves and God is our task master? Do we just mindlessly do what we are told for God's amusement?

Is the Baptist understanding of God different that the Catholic understanding?

I believe that He commands us to be baptized as an outward testimony of our faith in Christ, but God is not obligated to give us a specific reason as to why he commands us to do something. If we knew the specific reason behind every single thing God asked us to do, we would not be acting on faith.

If you don't want to be "dunked in water in the name of God" because you don't see the utility in it, then don't. But this is the Baptist forum and we have answered the question. Please don't beat a dead horse as has been done in similar threads. If you wish to debate, please go to the proper forum.

 

[@@Paul@@]

Are we not children of God? Is not God our father who teaches us so that we can be made righteous? What good is it to me or God that I be dunked in water in the name of God if it does not do anything? Why would God tell us to do something without reason to do so? Are we just slaves and God is our task master? Do we just mindlessly do what we are told for God's amusement?

Is the Baptist understanding of God different that the Catholic understanding?

Is does DO something... It's the "first step" of our Walk with God...

We were told that "We are complete in Christ", there is nothing else we need. We are also told there is only ONE neccessary baptism, obviously not water. So why dunk?

Because it's the first step. One can be "born-again" and NOT choose to live a "christian" life... As a human, we tend to need a "big moment" to remember. I don't recall what i was doing on 9-11 BUT i remember what happened... I can always look back at that and remember...

Same goes for my baptism... If i fall away, I can always look back and remember that I took that first step and I NEED to keep walking forward. I think it's more of a symbol to the person being baptized.

What do you mean by "made righteous"?

 

[@@Paul@@]

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I consider myself in the process of being made righteous.

OK, i'll buy that... Some might refer to it as sancification. The process by which we are made holy; purified.

I would consider baptism the first step in the process of "being made righteous" for a Baptist. But i can't speak for all of 'em.

 

[Foundthelight]

Let us cut to the heart of the matter.

John the Baptist came telling the people to prepare the way for the Lord and make the way straight for Him. And to be baptised for repentance and remission of sins! This remission of sins is not for the remission of the sin nature coming to us from Adam, but rather for the sins we have all personally committed.

Jesus sent out His Disciples to tell of the Kingdom of God and baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

All baptism was and is an act of repentance for our sins. In the case of Baptists, a very public act, as was Jesus' baptism. I know that Jesus was sin free, he did this as an example to all of us in obedience to the Father.

The reason that we who believe in credo-baptism believe as we do is the biblical evidence that baptism is undertaken as an act of repentance. This requires the thinking cooperation with the Holy Spirit of the one being baptised. (As if we could resist for very long. But that is a different matter.).

How can an infant repent of anything? All the infant is thinking of is the next feeding!

We believe that; when we in a spirit of true repentence and true belief in our hearts, confess with our lips that Jesus is our Lord and Savior, we have the promise of eternal life.

We believe that Christ's righteousness is imputed to us by this act of Faith and that this imputed righteousness that makes us Just in God's eyes.

We do not believe that salvation follows a sanctification process whereby Grace and thus righteousness is infused into us through the sacraments and good works thus resulting in Justification.

Grace is the gift of God freely given to the elect and Justification comes from Faith. Justification and the promise of salvation clearly preceeds the Sanctification process.

 

[kayanne]

Quote:
Originally Posted by: JOYfulbeliever




Water baptism isn't necessary for salvation.

This is Catholic belief as well.

Carrie, could you explain this? I have been told by many catholics that water baptism is necessary for salvation. Is that maybe a "general rule" but there are "exceptions"?

 

[Foundthelight]

So if you die before this age of accountability you automaticaly go to Heaven?

Where in the Bible can I read about this age of accountability?

I will gladly touch on this as we lost our second child at the age of six weeks following surgery to repair a heart defect.

As my example I will turn to the words of King David, who was loved by God.

2Sa 12:22 He answered, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.’

2Sa 12:23 But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me." (emphasis mine)

How beautifully this passage shows the promise we have that an innocent infant child will be with us in Heaven. David knew that he would eventually go to his son and took peace in that knowledge.

Notice that this child of David and Bathsheba was never circumsized, that he was never officially a part of the Covenant. Yet David will be with him.

This is our promise from the word of God. David knew it and took comfort in it. So do I.

At what age does this Grace due to innocence end? I cannot say. It really does depend on the child and God.

May God Bless.

Willis

 

[Cary.Melvin]

As my example I will turn to the words of King David, who was loved by God.

2Sa 12:22 He answered, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.’

2Sa 12:23 But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me." (emphasis mine)

How beautifully this passage shows the promise we have that an innocent infant child will be with us in Heaven. David knew that he would eventually go to his son and took peace in that knowledge.

Notice that this child of David and Bathsheba was never circumsized, that he was never officially a part of the Covenant. Yet David will be with him.

Can you give me any other scriptures? Someone a while back gave me that one you mentioned and I found so many holes in it (and I am no bible scholar) that I did not think that someone could resonably use that scripture to indicate an age of accountabilty existing in Old Testament times.

http://www.christianforums.com/t671133&page=5 see post #48.

Thanks,

 

[JVD]

I don't think there is a lot taught in the bible about children and salvation. What is taught has already been mentioned. The age of accountability is never mentioned.

I have a brother that died at 18 months. I believe he is in heaven. I don't really have much to go on other than what has already been mentioned.

My dad believes there will be many more people in heaven that died as children...or even before they were born, than people who actually lived on this earth. Primarily because of the low survival rate of children in 3rd world countries now and everywhere in the past. Because of that...those of us who have gone through life on earth will be a novelty in heaven....interesting thought.

I know the catholic church has their teachings on the subjects as do eastern orthodox. But those traditions eventually go back to someone who made them up, so I don't give them any higher credence than what I find in the bible...which isn't much on this subject.

Hard core calvinists always go to election and they don't have to worry about it.