Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
... there may have been a time when someone was not able to get baptized for various reasons, and died without having this done. Hence, we have a unique thing in scripture that is written by the Apostle Paul.
In those days, one may expect Baptism to be accepting a death sentence from worldly religion and/or government...
It is not just that there be water, or sufficient depth of water. At various times, and places, people would be converted, and quickly imprisoned and eventually put to death. There is also, the case of the very old who had waited for the promises of the Old Testament, and were not able to be baptized or died before arrangements were made. These things are likely why the Apostle Paul wrote that passage in I Cor.15:29.... I'm certainly not denying its by faith. Everyone has access to water or they will die, but certainly not everyone has access to a body of water for immersion. My brother has been to places where they baptized in a tarp and if authorities came through they put the kids in to play in the water.
Baptism is obedience to God, and Christ. It is required, and that is stated plainly in scripture. That there is an element of symbolism is not unique, nor is it contrary to scripture to see symbolism (sometimes called a "Type.")I'm not saying a no baptized person can't be saved, based on what Scripture, but a attitude of, "I said a prayer, I don't need baptism" won't save. In a sense, from what I gather from Scripture, baptism does save.
Again, irt is obedience, and it is submission to the command of Christ. Matt 10 shows the importance in general, and Baptism qualifies as such. It is not stated simply as being that, but the idea does no violence to those scriptures, and the principle of not denying the LORD is upheld.Im not sure whether this is considered an outward confession of faith either. Scripture doesn't elude to this either. Matthew 10 doesn't tie itself to baptism, but certainly a possible alluding to baptism. I'm not sure its a best fit to prove such.
Not sure where you get anything from scripture about infant baptism or that this has anything to do with original sin.One other thing, I'm not asking in a way condemning Baptist baptism because of the symbolic reference. Calling it symbolic, or even God mysteriously in the water for our salvation(Yes, this is my current stance based on Scripture and I now how infants should be baptized since they are born with original sin), changes what happens. Salvation.
DeaconDean,
Thanks for the reply. I think I can see where your stance comes from, given the wording of Romans 6:3-4. It seems your focus is on the "like", am I correct? If so, why not the very first part of this verse? The very beginning doesn't appear to support baptism is symbolic.
You also asked,
"Were you actually there in AD 33 when Jesus died and died with Him?"
and,
"Were you actually there in AD 33 when He arose from the dead and arose with Him?"
Yes. Romans 6 says I am buried with him in his death by baptism.
The issue I have with your answer is you have included the term "symbolic" without any demonstrative proof the Scripture is intending the word "symbolic" to be used.
The faith which we profess in baptism is faith in Christ; and the ceremony significantly represents the great work of Christ, on which our faith relies for salvation. We confess with the mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in the heart that God has raised him from the dead.(174) His burial and resurrection are exhibited in baptism, as his broken body and shed blood are exhibited in the supper. In both ordinances our faith is directed to the sacrifice of Christ. Under the name of sacraments they have been considered outward signs of inward grace; and, in this view of them, they signify the work of the Holy Spirit within us. But faith relies, for acceptance with God, on the work of Christ. It is a perverted gospel which substitutes the work of the Spirit for the work of Christ as the object of our faith; and it is a perverted baptism which represents the faith that we profess, as directed, not to the work of Christ, the proper object of faith, but to the work of the Holy Spirit in our hearts.
In the parallel passage referred to in Colossians, the expression is Buried with him in baptism. The word baptism stands without adjuncts. It is not baptism into death; but simply baptism. If the word baptism, thus standing alone, can signify something wholly moral, it will be difficult to reject the Quaker interpretation of these passages, and of baptizing in the commission. In the preceding verse, circumcision is mentioned; but that we may know physical circumcision not to be intended, it is expressly called the circumcision made without hands; and the circumcision of Christ. No such guard against misinterpretation attends the mention of baptism; and when it is recollected that Christians are not bound to receive physical circumcision, but are bound to receive physical baptism, we must conclude that physical baptism is here intended. The completeness of Christians requires the moral change denoted by circumcision, and also the obedience rendered in physical baptism. In all who are thus complete, this physical act is performed in faith of the operation of God. This passage does not, like that in Romans, deduce moral obligation from baptism; and, therefore, the word should is not introduced: but it affirms the completeness of true believers in their internal moral change, and in their very significant outward profession of it.
If there is no resemblance between immersion and Christs burial, the passage before us contains no allusion. If the resemblance is so slight, that but few persons are able to perceive it, the probability is, that the supposed allusion exists only in the fancy of those who imagine they see it. But if men have generally believed that allusion exists in the passage, the fact goes far to prove, that there is resemblance.
Have men generally believed in the existence of the supposed allusion? It is not necessary to examine the writings of authors attached to every different creed, and differing from each other in their views of baptism. Professor Stuart tells us their opinion in few words: Most commentators have maintained, that sunetaphemen has here a necessary reference to the mode of literal baptism, which they say, was by immersion; and this, they think, affords ground for the employment of the image used by the apostle, because immersion (under water) may be compared to burial (under the earth). It is difficult, perhaps, to procure a patient rehearing for this subject, so long regarded by some as being out of fair dispute. Now this general agreement of commentators, answers the objection which we are considering, far more successfully than any efforts of ours to point out the resemblance, which these commentators have perceived. The fact that it is seen is the best proof that it exists. The Scripture nowhere affirms that Paul, in this passage, alluded to a resemblance between immersion and Christs burial; and, therefore, the common exegesis cannot be sustained by positive proof from Scripture; but it finds proof, the best proof that the nature of the case admits, in the fact that men generally have seen and felt the allusion.
Although positive proof of the common exegesis cannot be found in Scripture, a circumstantial proof may be drawn from the passage itself, amounting to little less than full demonstration. After making mention of baptism into Christs death, Paul, before he refers to Christs resurrection, goes out of the usual course to speak of Christs burial. This was not necessary for the moral instruction which he designed to convey, if nothing but moral conformity to Christs death was intended. It was not necessary for the purpose of finding an antithesis to the resurrection of Christ. The Scriptures usually speak of Christs rising from the dead, not from the grave: and his death is the common antithesis to his resurrection. An example occurs in the present chapter, If we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection. In Colossians, after the passage Buried with him in baptism, the antithesis is again made, between the death (not the burial) of Christ, and his resurrection: Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ, from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, &c.(175) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, &c. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.(176) Why did the apostle step out of the usual course, in two different passages to mention the burial of Christ? and to mention it in connection with baptism? It cannot be accounted for if the common exegesis be rejected.
The objection states that little resemblance can be found between immersion and Christs burial: and the same might be said with respect to the resemblance between a loaf of bread, and the body of Christ. A well executed picture of the crucifixion, such as may be seen in Catholic chapels, has much more resemblance to the body of Christ, than is furnished by a piece of bread; yet, considering all the ends to be answered by the Eucharist, the divine wisdom has determined that we should keep Christs death in memory, not by looking at a crucifix, but by the eating of bread. In like manner, some means might have been devised for representing the burial and resurrection of Christ, supplying a nearer resemblance than is furnished by immersion in water. But when we consider that baptism not only represents the burial and resurrection of Christ, but also our fellowship with him in both, and the consequent removal or washing away of our guilt, nothing could more conveniently, aptly, and instructively accomplish all these ends at once.
Baptism is an ordinance of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, to be unto the party baptised, a sign of his fellowship with Him in His death and resurrection; of his being engrafted into Him;1 of remission of sins;2 and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to live and walk in newness of life.3
Of Baptism and the Lord's Supper We believe that Christian Baptism is the immersion in water of a believer, into the name of the Father, and Son, and Holy Ghost; to show forth, in a solemn and beautiful emblem, our faith in the crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, with its effect in our death to sin and resurrection to a new life;
Baptism is an ordinance of the Lord Jesus, obligatory upon every believer, wherein he is immersed in water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, as a sign of his fellowship with the death and resurrection of Christ, of remission of sins, and of his giving himself up to God, to live and walk in newness of life.
Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The act is a symbol of our faith in a crucified, buried and risen Saviour.
VII. Baptism and the Lord's Supper
Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead.
As I've stated, since I'm fairly new to Christianforums, I am a lifelong Baptist, still belong to a Baptist church, but listening to Lutheran podcasts have caused me to relook at the Baptist faith with more inspection at certain aspects.
The Baptist official statement, at least SBC, is
Where in Scripture does the denomination find baptism is a symbol? I've read the verses they gave and none allude to a symbol. Why do Baptist state it is?
One thing I've noticed about the Baptist plan of salvation is that each step is backed-up by Scripture until you get to the end where it says to pray this prayer if you believe.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?