Baker Nailed Them!

[baker]

Worthyness is a matter for God to Judge......

I could not agree more. Can I walk into an lds temple and let Him judge me in this regard?

 

[leeuniverse]

Can I walk into an lds temple and let Him judge me in this regard?

What makes you think that Gods Kingdom on earth doesn't have to be opperated in ORDER and REASON?
When has it ever been operated NOT according to order and law?

 

[baker]

]Worthyness is a matter for God to Judge......

I could not agree more. Can I walk into an lds temple and let Him judge me in this regard?

Lee,

It was a fairly straightforward question in response to your claim. Why not a straightforward answer?

 

[leeuniverse]

That was a "staightforward answer"...... do you not know how to comprehend simple logic?
It's a simple statement pointing out the foolishness of the question.

Could ANYONE touch the Ark of the Covenent?
Was just ANYONE that was not a Jew allowed in the Temple in Christs time, or in certain parts of it?
etc. etc.....

The Lord has "standards" to everything, just as in your religion you might have standards that a person can't plop a KEG of BEER on the Church pue and start drinking and getting drunk.

Would you allow that in YOUR HOUSE??? I don't think so, so why would you suppose that the Lord wouldn't want High Standards to enter His Holy House, a house which is such BECAUSE of those standards, because they then are a place away from the world in which His Holy Spirit Pure and undifiled by man can dwell.

It's His House..... and it rightly so should not be desicrated, otherwise it would be a same as any other building.

And simply because "you" believe you are worthy, that means nothing, because you haven't done anything to met the standard to prove your Faith in Him, you instead follow your OWN standard, and not being humble and obedient to His.

You are an "infant" in knowing the restored Gospel, and just as we wouldn't throw an infant into a pool and left to drown, we also don't allow someone in the Temple without knowing how to swim, as much as possible anyway, then the rest is between them and the Lord within the standard.

Anyway, people whine too much that God or His Church has actual "standards".....
Well, some people appreciate such a thing in this tossed to-and-fro world of ours.

 

[baker]

That was a "staightforward answer"...... do you not know how to comprehend simple logic?
It's a simple statement pointing out the foolishness of the question.

Could ANYONE touch the Ark of the Covenent?
Was just ANYONE that was not a Jew allowed in the Temple in Christs time, or in certain parts of it?
etc. etc.....

The Lord has "standards" to everything, just as in your religion you might have standards that a person can't plop a KEG of BEER on the Church pue and start drinking and getting drunk.

Would you allow that in YOUR HOUSE??? I don't think so, so why would you suppose that the Lord wouldn't want High Standards to enter His Holy House, a house which is such BECAUSE of those standards, because they then are a place away from the world in which His Holy Spirit Pure and undifiled by man can dwell.

It's His House..... and it rightly so should not be desicrated, otherwise it would be a same as any other building.

And simply because "you" believe you are worthy, that means nothing, because you haven't done anything to met the standard to prove your Faith in Him, you instead follow your OWN standard, and not being humble and obedient to His.

You are an "infant" in knowing the restored Gospel, and just as we wouldn't throw an infant into a pool and left to drown, we also don't allow someone in the Temple without knowing how to swim, as much as possible anyway, then the rest is between them and the Lord within the standard.

Anyway, people whine too much that God or His Church has actual "standards".....
Well, some people appreciate such a thing in this tossed to-and-fro world of ours.

Lee,

Let me see if I got this right. The long and short of it is that before god can judge my worthiness in your temple, someone in your church has to first.

Is that about right?

 

[leeuniverse]

Only you and God judges your "worthyness"..... but the Church itself has certain standards which need to be met in order to fullfull it's purposes and mission.

Since parts of it's mission is to keep Temples "Houses of the Lord", a place in which His Spirit can dwell unassulted by the World, then clearly steps must be taken which ensures that this mission is fullfilled, hence the Temple recommend process.

If your too good "prideful" for the standards the Church through the Lord has set, then that is an issue between Him and you, not an issue for the Church.
Frankly, I'm very grateful for the Lords Holy House, and unbelievers can persecute and kill me all they want, but it won't change my deep Gratitude to God for His Work and Glory.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Lee,

Let me see if I got this right. The long and short of it is that before god can judge my worthiness in your temple, someone in your church has to first.

Is that about right?

A member judges his/her own worthiness for temple attendance. Questions posited are for self evaluation. While the Bishop & Stake President are present, every member of the church should understand that the 'worthiness' interviews are between: themselves as potential temple attenders & the Lord.

Regardless, however, these temple interviews are not exactly comparable to 'Judgement Day,' which is where 'worthiness' will be judged perfectly, mercifully and justly by God.

 

[baker]

Only you and God judges your "worthyness"..... but the Church itself has certain standards which need to be met in order to fullfull it's purposes and mission.

Are these standards predicated by the word of God? If so could you explain the standards and the scriptural support/requirement for them?

Since parts of it's mission is to keep Temples "Houses of the Lord",

So do you believe that your temple is the only place that can be considered the "house of the lord"? What about your Sunday chapels or other christian churches, are they not a "house of the lord". They are open to all.

a place in which His Spirit can dwell unassulted by the World, then clearly steps must be taken which ensures that this mission is fullfilled, hence the Temple recommend process.

Are you saying that His Spirit only dwells in your temple or, that the presence of a non-mormon christian is an assault on His Spirit. I really do not follow your reasoning here.


If this is a place for the sacred word of god, why would God want to exclude anyone from hearing it and where did Christ teach such practices? Do you not present his sacred word during your sunday services?

 

[Rescued One]

According to this line of thought, you believe you are more worthy of grace based on your rejection of Joseph Smith whom you believe to be a false prophet.

If you do not believe there is anything 'of God' to be had in the Temple, why are you so preoccupied with who is and is not 'allowed' inside?


I just do not get it.

Think about it. I'm not preoccupied with this issue. I'm just attempting to encourage some clear thinking.

 

[Rescued One]

You do, however, believe their words, which are in canonized scripture, are to be accepted as truth in the acceptance of Christ.

Accepting Christ means, along with many other things, supporting those whom He has called to His service. We believe Joseph Smith is one of them. We believe Christ to be our exclusive advocate with the Father. Joseph Smith testified of this belief in his acceptance of the Holy Bible.

There's something wrong with what you are saying. One must accept Joseph Smith to be considered worthy of what you regard as higher blessings. Mormons are elitists rather than brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Rescued One]

According to this line of thought, you believe you are more worthy of grace based on your rejection of Joseph Smith whom you believe to be a false prophet...

No, to me, none of us deserve God's grace. What we deserve is an eternity in hell. But God prefers that we come to Him for salvation.

 

[Rescued One]

Worthyness is a matter for God to Judge......
God has always had His Chosen People, His Saints, His believers. Just because one doesn't know or see the fullness of His Gospel as it is today, that doesn't make them any less "worthy" of Gods blessings.
For ALL have the Light of Christ within them, and they are accordingly blessed according to their magnification of that Light.
So, one is in deep error to believe that LDS look down on others, or consider them less worthy simply because you are not with us.

Then it's time for the LDS to hand out temple recommends to all Christians. And stop saying that someone has to be worthy to get a temple recommend. God is the judge, therefore, one does not need a signed piece of paper.

 

[calgal]

Then it's time for the LDS to hand out temple recommends to all Christians. And stop saying that someone has to be worthy to get a temple recommend. God is the judge, therefore, one does not need a signed piece of paper.

Precisely. The statement "Yes I am worthy" bothered me as a Mormon since it implied a certain arrogance (Pride = 1 of the "7 Deadly Sins") and I could not simply make myself worthy of God. I heard a sermon that explained why this bothered me "On our own, we can NEVER be worthy of God's love. BUT ONLY through the blood of Jesus can we be made worthy." Or as the hymn said: "What can wash away my sins? NOTHING but the Blood of Jesus..." No ceremonies, no works, nothing but the Blood of the Risen Savior.

 

[Rescued One]

calgal, I love that hymn.

 

[calgal]

calgal, I love that hymn.

It is short, sweet and to the point.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

That was a "staightforward answer"...... do you not know how to comprehend simple logic?
It's a simple statement pointing out the foolishness of the question.

Could ANYONE touch the Ark of the Covenent?
Was just ANYONE that was not a Jew allowed in the Temple in Christs time, or in certain parts of it?
etc. etc.....

The Lord has "standards" to everything, just as in your religion you might have standards that a person can't plop a KEG of BEER on the Church pue and start drinking and getting drunk.

Would you allow that in YOUR HOUSE??? I don't think so, so why would you suppose that the Lord wouldn't want High Standards to enter His Holy House, a house which is such BECAUSE of those standards, because they then are a place away from the world in which His Holy Spirit Pure and undifiled by man can dwell.

It's His House..... and it rightly so should not be desicrated, otherwise it would be a same as any other building.

And simply because "you" believe you are worthy, that means nothing, because you haven't done anything to met the standard to prove your Faith in Him, you instead follow your OWN standard, and not being humble and obedient to His.

You are an "infant" in knowing the restored Gospel, and just as we wouldn't throw an infant into a pool and left to drown, we also don't allow someone in the Temple without knowing how to swim, as much as possible anyway, then the rest is between them and the Lord within the standard.

Anyway, people whine too much that God or His Church has actual "standards".....
Well, some people appreciate such a thing in this tossed to-and-fro world of ours.

Simmer down there lee, you are going to give yourself a heart attack, it will be ok, just breath in, breath out

Grace

 

[Rescued One]

And simply because "you" believe you are worthy, that means nothing, because you haven't done anything to met the standard to prove your Faith in Him, you instead follow your OWN standard, and not being humble and obedient to His.

How do you know who is worthy and who isn't?

Anyway, people whine too much that God or His Church has actual "standards".....
Well, some people appreciate such a thing in this tossed to-and-fro world of ours.

My goodness, I never met a Christian who complained about being a new creature in Christ. We admit there's a struggle going on, but do we complain that God wants to change us?

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1](Romans 7:14-25 NKJV) For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. {15} For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. {16} If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. {17} But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]{18} For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. {19} For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]{20} Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. {21} I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. {22} For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. {23} But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. {24} O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? {25} I thank God; through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.[/size][/font]

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Think about it. I'm not preoccupied with this issue. I'm just attempting to encourage some clear thinking.

All right, GWiT, I am all for critical thinking.

Will I, as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, be admitted into the kingdom of heaven by the God you worship?

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Mormons are elitists rather than brothers and sisters in Christ.

I think you seriously misunderstand my position. I do not care whether or not I or my beliefs are embraced and welcomed by the Christian community. It matters nothing whether or not I am considered, by man, to be a 'sister' in Christ.

It is Christ to whom I petition advocacy, not Christiandom. It is God to whom I am ultimately accountable, not my fellow man.


I do not understand how we can be considered 'elitists' when our missionary work is such a concentrated effort. I would think 'elitists' to be exclusive, not inclusive... but that is merely my opinion.

 

[baker]

It is God to whom I am ultimately accountable, .....

.....right after, of course, I give the preliminary accounting to my bishop.