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Bad theology in CCM?
- Thread starter brettnolan
- Start date
Sorry I will try to be clear in my first post my point was that secular music with a moral message is not in and of itself sin but that all things are not edifying and that just because it is not "sin" does that mean you should do it.
The grace post was to point out that grace is not an excuse to live how I want and then say "Its under the blood". No, grace empowers us to overcome through God coming alongside us, taking us by the hand and saying "here let me show you how". That is the prize of Calvary that we may go from faith to faith, glory to glory and not to have the standards lowered for poor old mankind. And really has no bearing on the overall topic and could have been a misunderstanding of blackwasp's post. I can't stand by and let anyone think that just because they call on the name of The Lord that they can continue to live as they did before.
Matt 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
KJV
Music in and of itself is no different than alchohol they are just things like money. It is what they can "bring" in to our lives and what they can do to our heart that is to be avoided, remember it is the "love" of money and not money itself that is the root of all evil. This heart matter and soul issue is what makes subjects like this one so tricky.
The last posts were not that confusing.
Jamey
The grace post was to point out that grace is not an excuse to live how I want and then say "Its under the blood". No, grace empowers us to overcome through God coming alongside us, taking us by the hand and saying "here let me show you how". That is the prize of Calvary that we may go from faith to faith, glory to glory and not to have the standards lowered for poor old mankind. And really has no bearing on the overall topic and could have been a misunderstanding of blackwasp's post. I can't stand by and let anyone think that just because they call on the name of The Lord that they can continue to live as they did before.
Matt 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
KJV
Music in and of itself is no different than alchohol they are just things like money. It is what they can "bring" in to our lives and what they can do to our heart that is to be avoided, remember it is the "love" of money and not money itself that is the root of all evil. This heart matter and soul issue is what makes subjects like this one so tricky.
The last posts were not that confusing.
Jamey
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Thank you, that helps.
I think we can agree on these points.
The issue is bad theology in CHRISTIAN music. So far we've had one example. It was borderline, but chalk one up for bad theology.
Anybody have anymore?
I think we can agree on these points.
The issue is bad theology in CHRISTIAN music. So far we've had one example. It was borderline, but chalk one up for bad theology.
Anybody have anymore?
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blackwasp
Skinless
I don't believe so. If it is not found in scripture, we cannot assume it to be true.ps139 said:
Nothing is wrong with a thank you if Mary could have led him to Christ. However, if you believe scripture is inspired and full, then she couldn't. If he spent a paragraph gushing about Mary and never mentioned Jesus, something is awry.ps139 said:
Why? We are told to judge others who bear the name of Christ.ps139 said:
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Axver
Dreaming on a railway track
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That logic makes no sense. Scripture doesn't state that the sky's blue or that this messageboard is called Christian Forums, so shouldn't we assume that to be true either?blackwasp said:
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ps139
Ab omni malo, libera nos, Domine!
Ditto to Axver.blackwasp said:
I say, if its explicitly forbidden in Scripture, we can assume it to be forbidden.
If its explicitly stated as true in Scripture, we can assume it to be true.
If it is neither, then there is some room for speculation.
What's this paragraph you are referring to? Earlier you did not even know that the lyric about him following Christ was written by him. You need to see all he has written/sang on this subject. Actuall, even then, you still do not know. His relationship with Christ is a personal thing. Maybe he only talks about aspects of it. Anyway this is getting ridiculous.
Read Luke 6.
I am done with this, I do not want to turn the music forum into religious debate. There are other places we can do that. One reason why I like the music forum is because we do not have to worry about who believes what. I would like to keep it that way.
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blackwasp
Skinless
Courtesy of billycorgan.com:
"Mother Mary saved my life. No, this is not a typographical error, so I will say it again just to be sure...Mother Mary saved my life. That is why the Zwan album was titled Mary, Star of the Sea. I was asked the question many times during interviews about how the album came to be named, and I only partially answered the question. What I usually said, which 'was' true, is that when zwan was rehearsing in key west, florida during the winter of 2001, I used to go and hang out at this church called Mary Star of the Sea. What I didn't say is that off to the side was a grotto of the Virgin Mary that I used to go and pray at to find some clarity and solace. I asked Mother Mary there to help me change the direction of my life, my negative attitudes, and to heal my broken heart. I promised Mary that in tribute to her, I would name the album in her honor, and thereby honor the place when I found comfort in hours of need. Now, some may scoff at the notion that Mary, the mother of! Jesus, saved my life, or changed my life at all. Anyone could opine that it is all in my mind. So let me say this. I have received probably 2,000 letters in the last 12 years where strangers have told me that I saved their lives. Many have said that at the time they were writing the letter, they had recently been contemplating suicide, and that my music had helped them to find the courage to not do such a horrible thing. Other letters would be about whether the person could find the strength to get out of bed, to face another day of their often unhappy life. They would say that a particular lyric, or something I had said in an interview, had reminded them of their own dreams. Now did I actually come into their room? Did I hold their hand to keep them from jumping out a window, or from cutting their arms, or from throwing up their dinner so they wouldn't gain weight, or keep them from taking drugs? The answer is no, I didn't. I was not there for them like their parents, or h!usband, or wife, or best friend. But I did help save their life."
-Billy Corgan
"Mother Mary saved my life. No, this is not a typographical error, so I will say it again just to be sure...Mother Mary saved my life. That is why the Zwan album was titled Mary, Star of the Sea. I was asked the question many times during interviews about how the album came to be named, and I only partially answered the question. What I usually said, which 'was' true, is that when zwan was rehearsing in key west, florida during the winter of 2001, I used to go and hang out at this church called Mary Star of the Sea. What I didn't say is that off to the side was a grotto of the Virgin Mary that I used to go and pray at to find some clarity and solace. I asked Mother Mary there to help me change the direction of my life, my negative attitudes, and to heal my broken heart. I promised Mary that in tribute to her, I would name the album in her honor, and thereby honor the place when I found comfort in hours of need. Now, some may scoff at the notion that Mary, the mother of! Jesus, saved my life, or changed my life at all. Anyone could opine that it is all in my mind. So let me say this. I have received probably 2,000 letters in the last 12 years where strangers have told me that I saved their lives. Many have said that at the time they were writing the letter, they had recently been contemplating suicide, and that my music had helped them to find the courage to not do such a horrible thing. Other letters would be about whether the person could find the strength to get out of bed, to face another day of their often unhappy life. They would say that a particular lyric, or something I had said in an interview, had reminded them of their own dreams. Now did I actually come into their room? Did I hold their hand to keep them from jumping out a window, or from cutting their arms, or from throwing up their dinner so they wouldn't gain weight, or keep them from taking drugs? The answer is no, I didn't. I was not there for them like their parents, or h!usband, or wife, or best friend. But I did help save their life."
-Billy Corgan
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blackwasp
Skinless
I think you and Axver both misunderstood what I was getting at. Salvation is not a muddy issue; it is clearly spelled out in the Bible. Therefore, to add to the process of salvation or the means of salvation is a lie.ps139 said:
Paragraph posted. I did not recognize the lyric you posted earlier, but I am familiar with his many songs that deal with Christ in a derogatory manner. If an individual's relationship with Christ is only personal, then what merit does it hold? Surely the fruit of the Spirit would be evident. Why would he only discuss aspects of it? Why is this getting ridiculous?ps139 said:
Read 2 Thessalonians 3.ps139 said:
True, but the music forum is still christians only, and I believe as christians we should not be afraid to sharpen each other in Christ. Also, the thread concerns theology, so you will face it one way or the other.ps139 said:
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nadroj1985
A bittersweet truth: sum, ergo cogito
blackwasp said:
It's funny that this has to be said so much: If two people are honestly searching for the truth and come up with different answers for an issue, then it is not clear. The issue of salvation is a bit muddy since there are many opinions as to how one is saved.
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nadroj1985
A bittersweet truth: sum, ergo cogito
ps139 said:
Hahaha I know.
This argument gets my vote for "Most Likely to Go Absolutely Nowhere."
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blackwasp
Skinless
Now wait just a cotton-picking minute. You are on a christian website, in a christians only area, in a thread that discusses theology in music. If you do not agree with what I have posted please express your opinion and back it up. When did this stop being a discussion and turn into a joke?ps139 said:
Honestly...
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