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Well, this looks like the first theology debate!!blackwasp said:Ah, but how can one come to repentance without the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit? If one must choose salvation, have you not obtained salvation by works? You have now proved that a conservative christian will be turned off by this message.
blackwasp said:Well our churches better work extra hard with our christian thespians! We need to produce more movies like Omega Code for the world to scoff at so that christians don't have to go to the movies and see the filth that the world offers. If music that the world creates stumbles you so much, would you be willing to lay all "entertainment" music on the altar and sacrifice it for the sake of your personal relationship with Christ?
blackwasp said:I have been to christian concerts, but I most certainly am not familiar with the songs and own none of their cds. Please provide me with a christian song by a mainstream "entertainment" band that has amazing edifying lyrics that are right-on. Elsewise, I will have to continue to find lyrics to the few songs that I do know.
blackwasp said:By the way, most of the bands I like sold millions of records. Sabbath, Zeppelin, Guns n Roses, Alice in Chains, Smashing Pumpkins...no small names there. Not that I don't like smaller bands, but on the norm, I like bands that accomplished success by originality.
blackwasp said:And you are right about the television issue. Why don't we create more stations similar to TBN? I can't get enough!
It is a theology thread, sort of, since the issue is bad theology in Christian music.nadroj1985 said:"Emptiness is loneliness and loneliness is cleanliness and cleanliness is Godliness and God is empty, just like me."
That's the Smashing Pumpkins, one of your favorite bands. It seems that they are slapping God in the face as well, yet you love them.
Oh, and watch out guys, don't make this into a theology thread....
Although I have heard that Billy Corgan is catholic, I'm safely assuming that he is not saved. Because he is not a christian, I am not going to expect him to pen lyrics that glorify God. He couldn't. Someone who claims to be a christian artist yet sullies it is a wolf in sheep's clothing.nadroj1985 said:"Emptiness is loneliness and loneliness is cleanliness and cleanliness is Godliness and God is empty, just like me."
That's the Smashing Pumpkins, one of your favorite bands. It seems that they are slapping God in the face as well, yet you love them.
Oh, and watch out guys, don't make this into a theology thread....
Because in the department of music, the secular world has a right to scoff. I don't have a problem with people avoiding music that they think is inappropriate for them personally. I, however, do not take kindly to individuals dogmatically placing a ban on secular music for other christians because of unbiblical legalism. If an individual finds music containing profanity, sex, or drugs inappropriate, than I hope they are not viewing cable television or PG-13 movies, lest they be labeled a hypocrite. If the christian industry could find a way to market movies and make a profit, they would.brettnolan said:You're missing the point. SOME people prefer entertainment that does NOT include secular influences that I'm sure you can agree are not beneficial. Promotion of gratuitous sex, drugs and violence for instance. The "world" is going to scoff at Christian-made ANYTHING...why are you so ready and willing to help them? Yes, a LOT of Christian entertainment is garbage...not ALL.
I know plenty about it, just not about specific groups.brettnolan said:Note that the thread is about bad theology in CCM, not mainstream music. I fully expect that you will find lyrics from the songs that you know. Nothing wrong with that. I was simply pointing out that you have painted all of CCM with one brush and now freely admit that you don't know that much about it after all.
If a band attempts to play a modern popular style of music (pop-rock), is on a major/midmajor label (tooth and nail), and tours frequently, they have every chance to be well known and popular. A lot of the bands that were mentioned in other threads were not well known because they played a progressive style of music, refused to wield creativity, etc. Then again, others just simply aren't any good.brettnolan said:Again, I said I didn't know what you listen to, but some other posters have thrown out names of bands I have never heard of. That doesn't mean they're not good, it just means they don't get the run of your typical mainstream artist. Therefore, they are not competing well. Just pointing out that performance in the mainstream is not the only measure of good music..
What is the point of family friendly programming? So now the point is no longer to edify biblically, but rather to avoid the evils of the world?brettnolan said:I purposely did NOT use TBN if you didn't notice. PAX was the only network I could think off the top of my head. The use reruns of family friendly programming from the other network, thereby providing an alternative.
A conservative christian (such as myself) realizes that there is freedom in Christ. Christ came to fulfill the law, not to add additional requirements. We will never become closer to God by trying to accumulate points based on empty morality. Unless secular music causes me to stumble, I will continue to listen to it. (If that were the case, I would revert to hymns and avoid the garbage of modern christian music.)brettnolan said:It is a theology thread, sort of, since the issue is bad theology in Christian music.
BW makes an interesting point. I disagree with it, though. I would think that a true "conservative" Christian probably isn't going to listen to "rock and roll" with ANY message (see PreacherFergy).
I wouldn't consider the act of accepting Christ as a "work." Is believing a "work?" I don't know. If it is, then my opinion would be that we all (Christians and non-Christians) DO have salvation. If it would not even require belief, or a profession or faith, etc. Then if that's the case, then what was the point of the death and resurrection?
Why do you think he is not saved or not a Christian?blackwasp said:Although I have heard that Billy Corgan is catholic, I'm safely assuming that he is not saved. Because he is not a christian, I am not going to expect him to pen lyrics that glorify God. He couldn't. Someone who claims to be a christian artist yet sullies it is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
How could it not be? Accepting Christ is an action. An act of faith. But then again you would only do ti if you have faith...brettnolan said:I wouldn't consider the act of accepting Christ as a "work." Is believing a "work?" I don't know.
I would not go that far...If it is, then my opinion would be that we all (Christians and non-Christians) DO have salvation. If it would not even require belief, or a profession or faith, etc. Then if that's the case, then what was the point of the death and resurrection?
Phil 2:12-13brettnolan said:I wouldn't consider the act of accepting Christ as a "work." Is believing a "work?" I don't know. If it is, then my opinion would be that we all (Christians and non-Christians) DO have salvation. If it would not even require belief, or a profession or faith, etc. Then if that's the case, then what was the point of the death and resurrection?
You first must show that this is a sin.Fire_Man said:Sorry Blackwasp but "grace" is to empower you to live the way God intends for you to and not to empower you to live the way you have.
Rom 6:1-3
6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
NIV
Sorry but Christ raised the bar and empowered you and I to jump over it, not lowered it so that anyone can step over.
Jamey
I don't know...what are YOU saying?Fire_Man said:Phil 2:12-13
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
KJV
You were saying?
Jamey
What are you guys talking about? Show WHAT is a sin?blackwasp said:You first must show that this is a sin.
I saw a post he had on his website where he was discussing his new Zwan album (which has some awesome songs on it!) and he repeated over and over again how Mother Mary had saved him. In the entire time, he never mentioned anything about Jesus. Christ tells us that no one comes to the Father except through Himself.ps139 said:Why do you think he is not saved or not a Christian?
Is the new lyric referring to Billy Corgan? If he is, I'm all the happier, but I'm still a doubter.ps139 said:Here is a lyric from one of his new songs:
"Jesus, I've taken my cross/ All to leave and follow Thee"
Perhaps he also meant that Mary saved his life by leading him to Jesus, Who will save his soul?
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