Bacteria

[SeaShepherd]

I think we are drifting from the OP a bit here.

Apology accepted.

 

[MewtwoX]

Seashepherd: Key to note...

I think the Bible is a fairy tale for adults who think the world is full of happiness and pink fluffy clouds where nothing ever goes wrong - Adults who live in Lalaland and need to wake up.

Its what he thinks adults who are theist think.

Also, Nooj you need to be careful when you say that the formation of life had no purpose, because people could interpret that as a position of Evolution. Christian and Theist Evolution proponents would most likely disgree with you in this case.

 

[Loudmouth]

Supposably we (humans) came from bacteria.......correct me if thats not what you believe.

That is not what evolutionists believe. The roots of the prokaryote (bacteria and archaebacteria) and eukaryote tree is not clear at all. All of the evidence indicates that there was substantial gene transfer between these two trees early in evolution, and this even continues in protists to this day. Mitochondria and chloroplasts are eukaryote organelles that are the result of endosymbiosis between eukaryotes and prokaryotes. These organelles started out as prokaryotes.

There are two camps where the root of life is concerned, the Arachaebacterial tree and the Eocyte tree which which are attached below. In my opinion, the picture below best represents the roots of the tree of life.

where did this bacteria come from?

From other bacteria. The last universal common ancestor (LUCA) most likely was the culmination of many integrations of different life. The first replicators most likely came about through the abiotic formation of RNA polymers that became part of phospholipid micelles.

how did it form from nothing?

Life did not come from nothing. Life came from non-random chemical reactions of already existing molecules.

what was its purpose?

To replicate.

why did it change form?

If you have imperfect replicators and limited resources change (aka evolution) is impossible to avoid.

why are there no fossils of the stages between bacteria and 'monkeys'?

There are thousands of such fossils. Would you like to learn about them?

 

[FishFace]

And you know what adults think, how?

Golly gosh, you are a bit irritable. Why don't you stop hurling rhetoric around and start debating - debating like an adult. Atheuz made a point, and all you have to say is "and how would you know?!"
That does not an argument make.

 

[cerad]

Golly gosh, you are a bit irritable. Why don't you stop hurling rhetoric around and start debating - debating like an adult. Atheuz made a point, and all you have to say is "and how would you know?!"
That does not an argument make.

Yes it does.

 

[SeaShepherd]

Golly gosh, you are a bit irritable. Why don't you stop hurling rhetoric around and start debating - debating like an adult. Atheuz made a point, and all you have to say is "and how would you know?!"
That does not an argument make.

Atheuz made a point that I should debate like an adult, you say?

adults who think the world is full of happiness and pink fluffy clouds where nothing ever goes wrong - Adults who live in Lalaland and need to wake up

This is the point I'm supposed to debate? Sorry, but he is the one who poured derision all over Christians. If anything my response was quite measured.

 

[Atheuz]

This is the point I'm supposed to debate? Sorry, but he is the one who poured derision all over Christians. If anything my response was quite measured.

He asked a question whether or not I thought the Bible was a fairy tale, which I think it is and I don't understand adults who believe in it(my grandmother died because of Christianity, she always said "the Lord will take care of it!" and refused to take her medicine or go to the hospital frequently) . It's like believing in Santa or the toothfairy when you're 18 - It was a nice story while it lasted and it kept your innocence and believability intact, but you need to grow out of it eventually or it'll end up hurting you more than you think.

 

[SeaShepherd]

He asked a question whether or not I thought the Bible was a fairy tale, which I think it is and I don't understand adults who believe in it(my grandmother died because of Christianity, she always said "the Lord will take care of it!" and refused to take her medicine or go to the hospital frequently) . It's like believing in Santa or the toothfairy when you're 18 - It was a nice story while it lasted and it kept your innocence and believability intact, but you need to grow out of it eventually or it'll end up hurting you more than you think.

Wow, life advice from a teenager. I'll give it all the consideration it merits.

 

[Mumbo]

I only want to say that that was a good post by Loudmouth, and that more of the thread should be like that.

Also, SeaShepherd, that is the greatest avatar ever

 

[fromdownunder]

Is that what they told you?

I must admit i never pursued the topic that much, but when you provide decent evidence of any human baby that did not come from parents, I might consider exploring the subject further.

Norm

 

[f0rk3d]

Wow, life advice from a teenager. I'll give it all the consideration it merits.

P1: All teenagers lack wisdom.
P2: As an older adult, I have more wisdom about the world.
P3: Anyone that is less wise than I will give poor advice.
C: Therefore, teenagers - even if they are right - do not have any wisdom worth taking into consideration.

Hide behind your "But I didn't say exactly that." I'm older than you, and anyone with half a brain and half your age can read correctly into your sarcastic remark.

Bible says: God took a bunch of dirt and created man.
Abiogenesis says: A bunch of stuff began to replicate in a protein-rich environment.

We can't test the first. We are testing the second. Why would you take something untestable as fact but question the testable conclusions? There will always be some speculation as to how history actually happened, this is due to our removal from it. But to say that "God knows... it says so here" is to ignore the bias of the Historians writing the account.

Creationism: Ignore the evidence/twist the evidence to fit the conclusion.
Science: Regard the evidence and shape the conclusion around the evidence.

Which of these is more accurate a conclusion and why?

 

[David Gould]

I am wondering what the OP thinks the fossil record is.

Perhaps they want to see fossilisation of every single step before they accept that evolution is true.

I wonder, though, how they would know that they had seen every single step ...

 

[fromdownunder]

I am wondering what the OP thinks the fossil record is.

Perhaps they want to see fossilisation of every single step before they accept that evolution is true.

I wonder, though, how they would know that they had seen every single step ...

David, true enough, but every time we discover an fossil, that means that we double the number of gaps:

We have A - B. Where is the so called "missing link"?

We discover A1, so now we have:

A - A1 - B

But where is the "missing link" between A and A1, then A1 and B?

It will never matter what is found to the True Believer.

And if we had a complete set from the first life form to today, nobody could ever tell when A became B anyway. Because doing a reality check, there is no "missing link".

Norm

 

[MrGoodBytes]

David, true enough, but every time we discover an fossil, that means that we double the number of gaps:

We have A - B. Where is the so called "missing link"?

We discover A1, so now we have:

A - A1 - B

But where is the "missing link" between A and A1, then A1 and B?

It will never matter what is found to the True Believer.

And if we had a complete set from the first life form to today, nobody could ever tell when A became B anyway. Because doing a reality check, there is no "missing link".

Norm

True, unfortunately. Just some days ago, someone claimed in Liberal Theology that transitional fossils simply do not exist.

I gave him several listings of fish/amphibians, amphibians/mammals and primate/human fossils in answer, at which point he said that "there are still gaps between transitional fossils". Well, I tried.

 

[FishFace]

Atheuz made a point that I should debate like an adult, you say?

If you don't want to debate it like an adult, don't respond to it at all - simple as that.

Wow, life advice from a teenager. I'll give it all the consideration it merits.

Given how rude you're being, you'd do well to listen. I can't imagine your demeanour going down well in... well, adult society.

 

[Atheuz]

Wow, life advice from a teenager. I'll give it all the consideration it merits.

Turned out good for my grandmother and millions of others who get that advice each and every day, right?

- Don't take Science for granted, you wouldn't be sitting in your chair chatting with people online on your computer if it wasn't for Science.
- Don't take Religion too seriously, it will end up hurting you more than you know if you think God will handle everything for you.

 

[SeaShepherd]

Given how rude you're being, you'd do well to listen. I can't imagine your demeanour going down well in... well, adult society.

Atheuz fired the first shot. Since you seem willfully blind to that fact you go right on ahead and believe what you will.

It is kinds funny, though, calling me rude when collectively the Atheists in this forum heap scorn and mocking on creationists and our beliefs. Pot meet kettle.

 

[ciaphas]

Atheists are the least trusted minority in america, I get the feeling that they generally know a thing or two about being mocked and scorned.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

Atheuz made a point that I should debate like an adult, you say?



This is the point I'm supposed to debate? Sorry, but he is the one who poured derision all over Christians. If anything my response was quite measured.

I must agree with his statements.

 

[And-U-Say]

I think the Bible is a fairy tale for adults who think the world is full of happiness and pink fluffy clouds where nothing ever goes wrong - Adults who live in Lalaland and need to wake up.

In other words, yes. It's not even a very good fairy tale.

And you know what adults think, how?

Well, now that thread is not only derailed, but has plunged down the embankment and exploded in flames in the river, I thought I would hop on the wreakage.

How does he know what adults think? What an entirely odd question to ask in the light of his statement. Are you doubting that adults believe in things that are not true... that they sometimes consider fantasy to be reality? That christians just might be part of that?

If this is indeed your point here, may I also point out that you believe the very same thing, <b>about other adults</b>. For hundreds of years very serious, well educated adults believed that the Greco/Roman pantheon of gods was absolute reality, to the point of life and death. Would YOU not consider that these adults were living in a fairy tale? And what about today? What do you think of mormons? Do you believe that Smith actually had a meeting with the angel moron (oops, moroni, I keep forgetting)? Or do you think this to be fantasy? Do YOU think mormons are living in a fairly tale?

For sure, all religious beliefs can not be true, so that would mean most are false. We could describe those people as believing in a fantasy. That, perhaps, they need to "wake up".

So to refer to most adults as believing in fairy tales(or wanting to believe in a fairy tale) would be a perfect description of the situation. One that you would agree with, if you didn't happen to be in the particular target of reference.

And another thing... it seems to me that as a teenager, he is owning you when it comes to reasoning, so I would be careful about your statements.

Lastly, as an atheist hunter, you seem to be ill equipped for your expedition. The game you seek are formidable.