Backup Question

[HannahT]

I realize the new thing is backing up in the cloud, but the H gets a bit upset with the newest thing. He will think security breach. It took me years to talk him into doing banking online. I just don't see cloud storage as an option for us, until he gets more comfortable with technology.

That said - I have a question!

I was wondering about backup drives. Can you back up different computers, and KEEP backups separate? Honestly I don't want my teenager's pictures with the ones that I have. One goofy picture at dinner with friends is normally enough for me, and its never enough for them!

Also my documents aren't something I want to store with their school papers, etc.

I finally broke down, and got myself a laptop that I have been drooling over for while. I have wanted one for years, and the opportunity finally came. I'm in the middle of transferring my files from my old Vista computer to my new laptop this week. I also wanted to purchase a new backup drive, because the one we have is old. I think it needs to retire. At least on a shelf!

While I was at it I figured it would be smart to backup the teens and the H's computers as well. I didn't know if technology had come far enough to keep everyone's backups separate - or if it was better to get a separate drive for each one. If that is the case - everyone will get one in time. These drives aren't cheap.

I was looking at the Seagate Backup Plus with 3TB. It has the cloud storage option, but again I don't see H being comfortable with that portion.

Is it possible to have everyone's backups on a large drive, or do we just break down and buy different ones for each as the money is available?

Thank you.

 

[MoneyGuy]

I'm going to recommend the Click Free device. I've used it for many years and it's so easy. I've never had to do a restore but I've looked into that and it would be easy to restore if needed. It's not literally click free, but it's so easy to use that it virtually is.

The CF devices have different storage capacities but mine (about $100 when I bought it) can back up roughly 10 different computers. Plug it into your USB port and hit accept a couple of times and it does the back up for you.

I think this solves your problem very nicely. I think it's at clickfree.com. I think they now have online storage also, but I didn't want to pay a monthly fee so bought the hardware device. It's roughly the size of a cell phone.

 

[paul1149]

Keeping backups separate is a simple question of file management. Actually, you'd have to work hard to combine the backups of different computers/accounts. Most backup progs create their own file hierarchy for each job, so it's quite automatic. With sharing permissions and NTFS permissions, you can achieve a high degree of privacy.

You could get a NAS - network attached storage - unit, which would be accessible to all machines on the LAN via the router.

Or you could use an external drive - or for that matter an internal one - attached to a machine that's on the most and is most secure, and create shared folders on it, each one accessible only by its respective owner (one for you, one for "H", one for your son). Then the backups would again occur via LAN.

I'm also wary of raw cloud storage, but for me encrypting the data before it leaves my computer is sufficient. Encrypted transmission alone is not good enough, IMO. Look into boxcryptor or secretsync, which have free plans available. It's all automatic once you set it up.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I think you should figure out how much space EACH person would actually need for backing up files.... both now and for the next 5 years ahead growing in size. If you find the total amount isn't huge I would recommend buying 2 smaller drives instead of one large drive and having everyone backup to both drives such that if one backup drive fails or is lost or destroyed you all would still have a backup. What my backup plan is in the future is a small laptop USB drive about 500Gb to 1Tb size such that it would fix in a safe deposit box. I already have a 500Gb 3.5 inch drive to backup my computer but in case of a disaster and a total loss of everything like fire or tornado or flood I would have most of my data intact to rebuild from. I don't like cloud storage for the simple fact that too many sites have been hacked there is not a 100% guarantee that nobody can look at your data not that I would have anything extremely private it is just the idea that in the future I could have something like a patentable idea or something etc. I once had two computers networked and I backed up both to each other such that both would have to crash at the same time. You could if you had enough space back up other computers to one another password protecting or encrypting the data.

 

[Sketcher]

I still recommend backing up to the cloud in case your house burns down. Also, a good datacenter will be secure. Don't trust just anybody. And make sure you have good end-to-end encryption.

 

[EphesiaNZ]

I would never store anything vital or private in the cloud, would you trust your life savings to someone on the net? Remember, in simple term "The Cloud" is another way of saying someone else's computer.

A simple external hard drive is all that is needed for most single computer backups. If you have multiple computers then, as suggested, a NAS maybe the best option and such devices are shown here.

If you have a techie teenager or know someone with good IT knowledge then you could build your own NAS with free software in the form of FreeNAS and an old computer.

Important factors (neglecting cost) can be total storage space on backup device. I usually work out what I need there and then and triple it for future proofing - if I have 1TB of data backed up then I would look at buying a 3TB hard drive at least. Also a factor can be spin speed of the backup drive(s) 5200rpm and 7200rpm - obviously the latter is faster to store and retrieve data.

With a NAS, the above factors apply plus the speed of the network port on the NAS. Don't get one with less than a network speed of 1000mbps (gigabit).

Personally I would build my own and use FreeNAS but I'm a techie and know how to do this

 

[Qyöt27]

There's also M-DISC, although whether that's worth it is a matter of the content's desired permanency, the size of the content, and the amount of content to backup. It'd be too expensive if you need to backup 100s of gigs or a couple TBs worth of stuff, but for smaller, more targeted things it'd be one option that can be used in tandem with drive storage.

 

[HannahT]

Keeping backups separate is a simple question of file management. Actually, you'd have to work hard to combine the backups of different computers/accounts. Most backup progs create their own file hierarchy for each job, so it's quite automatic. With sharing permissions and NTFS permissions, you can achieve a high degree of privacy.

This is how I understood it myself. Each computer would get their own file name, etc. The man at the store told me the programs 'combine' everything. So, if I backed up my photos and the kids? They would be combined in the same 'photo' folder on the backup drive. I remember scratching my head thinking...I guess things have changed! I didn't remember this happening in the past, and I started to doubt myself. lol!

I would never store anything vital or private in the cloud, would you trust your life savings to someone on the net? Remember, in simple term "The Cloud" is another way of saying someone else's computer.

That was pretty much our thinking. It seems everyone talks about the 'cloud' so much, and I figured there was some way those people were securing their stuff. I had been using an old tower in the past for a backup, and just cut and pasting the file folders over our home network. Then I purchased an external hard drive - much like the seagate I spoke about - for the future.

Now, I wanted to find a new way of doing things. I have created a folder in my husband's email program to store some of the documents gets from his job for now. I told him SURE you can save them on your hard drive, but I have to figure out some way of doing home storage again. I told him to stick with the folder on his email program for now, until I can figure something out. For now his stuff is being stored within his gmail account.

The more I read about the Seagate Hard Drives? I learned I didn't like their software they used, because its hard to retrieve the backups when you need them. Its so strange to me that companies like this DON'T make decent software for their own products. They have been around for long enough it shouldn't be an issue.

Last night I started to search for different software that I could use for the Seagate drive. I was reading about Macrium Reflect, and then got tired and stopped.

I guess what you all are telling me is that Seagate drives aren't 'network attached storage - unit' in the true sense right? I would be better of using something like you linked to, and then use the software to network all the computers to that drive correct? Could I place a program icon (FreeNAS) on their desktops for them to back it up on occasion to the external drive that is on our home work?

I'm not afraid of this stuff, but it has been a while since I have tried it. I seem to be the family IT person, and I get to fix computers everytime a virus hits, needs to setup a network, etc. Although I'm NOT as far along as they seem to think I am. I do enjoy playing with it, and figuring this stuff out.

 

[paul1149]

Macrium Reflect is good, but if you want to use it for data backup you have to buy the paid version. Easeus Todo free version also does data backup, and is the program I had in mind. It, coupled with share/ntfs permissions, would give you a secure backup, whether on a local drive, NAS or external network drive.

In the last case, the admin of the computer hosting the external drive would have access to everything. But then, each user can encrypt his data so that that access would be meaningless.

And if you use Todo free, you now have to put up with an occasional nag screen.

 

[Sophrosyne]

There is also two main types of backup... a full image of your hard drive and everything on it such that you could completely restore it all on an identical computer and be up and running instantly and just wanted data backup.
Some backup programs tend to allow incremental backups too only adding data to the backup source that hasn't been added prior. I think if you don't have a large amount of data to backup using incremental backup may not be an issue but with a huge amount it could save you a lot of backup time allowing you to backup more often without a big performance hit.

 

[EphesiaNZ]

I guess what you all are telling me is that Seagate drives aren't 'network attached storage - unit' in the true sense right?

If the external hard drive has no network port on the back of it's casing then it's just a standard external drive typically connecting via USB or ESATA. NAS devices usually look like big cubes typically housing 2 or 4 hard drives and have a network port on the rear - think of a NAS as being a computer with multiple drives and a network card.

I would be better of using something like you linked to, and then use the software to network all the computers to that drive correct? Could I place a program icon (FreeNAS) on their desktops for them to back it up on occasion to the external drive that is on our home work?

FreeNAS is basically something like your old tower PC which you cut and pasted files to but, is far more advanced and has a web based admin screen to configure and mainatain the system. What you do is basically create home user directories on it for your respective family members then use whatever backup software you can use and just specify their home directory on the FreeNAS box as their backup location.

Take a look at this chaps blog on how he got FreeNAS up and running for backups,

FreeNAS Backup for Windows Users: Conclusion - Brian's Blog

I'm not afraid of this stuff, but it has been a while since I have tried it. I seem to be the family IT person, and I get to fix computers everytime a virus hits, needs to setup a network, etc. Although I'm NOT as far along as they seem to think I am. I do enjoy playing with it, and figuring this stuff out.

Cool, as with all new things it might be a steep learning curve but the sense of achievement makes it worthwhile sometimes. If you find FreeNAS a bit beyond your comfort zone then don't worry as some of the off the shelf NAS devices can work just as well and possibly saves a lot of the banging your head against the wall!

 

[HannahT]

Thank you for all your time!

I have to say I'm a bit intimidated by building something myself. I mean the most I have ever really done is swap out memory, and replace a laptop screen. Those thing were pretty easy though.

I was looking at Tiger Direct, and saw some systems. My kids are older, and will be gone in a couple of years no doubt. I figured 3TB should be more than enough. I not even sure at this point we could fill 1TB now.

I know some of these systems already have a hard drive for storage, and some you need to buy them for the system. You can also swap drives for larger ones if you want too. I was reading about a Buffalo linkstation duo as well. From what I read about the Duo it has the second drive which mirrors the first in case your first drive dies. That was Available at Best Buy.

If I'm reading the information about these NAS systems...You bascially use your Ethernet into our router so they can talk. Then you connect via the network to the different laptops, desktops, and I guess even android phones. Pick what kind of backup you want, schedule them...and if one computer dies the files are basically there ready to go. We just need to install the software again.

 

[EphesiaNZ]

Yes, correct just plug your NAS device into your router to get it onto the home network and follow the manufacturers instructions as to proceed in setting it up.

I would opt for the 2 drive mirroring option as it give an extra layer of integrity to your data. If you have a single drive and it dies then goodbye data. Two syncronised drives allows one drive failure but then you need to replace that bad drive ASAP as you risk losing all your data should that second drive fail.

As you said, mirroring is also a good platform to upgrade the size of your drives. With servers I use to pull one drive out to fail it put a larger drive in then wait (crucial step) until all data was resynchronised then repeat procedure on the other NAS drive awaiting upgrade. Once complete you may find that you still have the same storage capacity as before as the logical storage volume on the drive is as originally specified eg, upgrade from 1TB to 3TB will still give you 1TB. You can resize the volume to 3TB in this case either with a utility supplied with the NAS or possibly a third party software solution.

 

[HantsUK]

A couple general comments on back-ups:

I keep two back-ups, one at home and a second somewhere else. You are protecting not just against your hard disk failing or getting corrupted, but also against some disaster befalling your home (fire/flood/theft). This also gives you a second chance in-case something goes wrong while doing a restore and the back-up somehow gets corrupted (how often do you do a restore? It's late, you're tired, you have to get a restore done NOW so that you can finish something urgent, and the instructions were saved to disk! You're 100% sure you won't get it wrong?)

A second back-up is easy if you have a laptop. Just occasionally take your laptop to your other location (a friend's or relative's home, or even work). A small USB drive doesn't take up much space.

Incremental back-ups, besides being much faster, also make it possible to keep previous versions. Very useful if you accidentally delete or edit the wrong file, or something gets corrupted but you do not release until a few weeks later. But the most recent back-ups will have faithfully saved the corrupted version. If you do this, the back-up disk will need much more space than you actually use for your files and data.

Cloud storage - not really suitable for backing-up, in my view. How long will it take to restore a few 100GB over your ADSL? Or to copy the cloud back-up to somewhere else? USB drives are slow enough (can take hours). At 8Mb/sec speed = 1MB/sec (unlikely to maintain this), 100GB would take 28hrs. Assuming your ISP doesn't limit your speed, and none of the intermediate internet connections suffer a 'go-slow' at any time.

 

[EphesiaNZ]

I keep two back-ups, one at home and a second somewhere else. You are protecting not just against your hard disk failing or getting corrupted, but also against some disaster befalling your home (fire/flood/theft).

Wise thing to do, just having a backup or NAS at home is limited protection as you state. I guess the level to which you go to depends how much you value your data and what your budget is. I've always told business people to have 3 copies of their crucial files eg, on a NAS or file server, portable USB or tape backup to keep offsite and another USB drive to keep offsite at a secondary location. I've heard of data corruption on a server and an offsite backup location going up in flames the same night and no third option - rare but it happens.

Incremental back-ups, besides being much faster, also make it possible to keep previous versions. Very useful if you accidentally delete or edit the wrong file, or something gets corrupted but you do not release until a few weeks later. But the most recent back-ups will have faithfully saved the corrupted version. If you do this, the back-up disk will need much more space than you actually use for your files and data.

Incrementals are faster for backing up but a pain to restore 100% of data in a full failure as you have to restore numerous incremental sets since the last full backup - been there several times... Snapshot systems can help where you risk overwriting a file by mistake and having it written to backup but come at a cost of increased data to store.

Cloud storage - not really suitable for backing-up, in my view.

Very true, you have to rely on the operators trust with your data and going by whats happened in recent times, that trust is minimal or non-existent. Also what happens if your online storage provider or their data center operator goes bankrupt?, you're going to have fun trying to get that data back from an online server that suddenly goes offline - the most famous example would be users of Kim Dotcom's previous operation MegaUpload, some people actually used it for serious non-pirate data storage and lost their data.