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Babylon

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Blynn, Mar 1, 2002.

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  1. Blynn

    Blynn Well-Known Member

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    Who or what do you think Babylon is?


    I have heard different opinions from America to the church to a religious system.


    What do you think?

    God Bless,
    Roberta :angel:
     
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  2. Wildfire

    Wildfire Member

    454
    +1
    Hi Roberta; interesting topic. Intuition has always led me to believe that Babylon refers to America; because of how she is described;
    "Who is like this city!"
    Remember how "Impressed" John was, when the angel showed him this place.
    And we are told that the merchants who were made rich by her; were the great men of the earth. And Babylon, is described as the city who reigns over all of the kings of the earth.
    And when she is destroyed, the world CRIES. The merchants, sailors, and those who trade; stand afar off, in fear of her torment, when they see the smoke of her burning. Poor, poor city; for in one hour, your judgement has come.
    Yes, there is nothing on earth like the United States; in strength, wealth, and power. Yet, it seems impossible that we (the USA) could ever become desolate.
     
  3. MaleC21

    MaleC21 a Jesus-is-real-Member

    47
    +2
    Babylon used to be a City!

    A city of wealth (also found in the old testament of the Bible (and in the Torah). One of the reasons why it became so popular was because there was a lot of perversion, black market and stuff, and like in rich countries usually the case is, no hope or faith in a God.

    God destroyed that city, just like He will destroy all the new Babylons that possibly will arrise (places that reject theMaker).

    There is a legend there will arrise (again) a new Babylon (-on the spot of the old city or not- I don't know), and the Antichrist would arrise from that place.

    When the name 'Babylon' is given to a city, it has got nothing to do with the well-fare of the city, for God doesn't judge wellfare, but He does judge unbelief!

    But many explenations can indeed be told.

    The history of the Bible learns us that people of that time, who lived in disgrace, wore a bad name 'till the end of their lives, or even longer.
    Evry time they spoke of that bad name again, they remind that bad person (Look to Jezebel, who died falling off a wall (in the Bible), and the dogs eating her flesh; That woman's name is still been seen as a demon, or a extremely bad habit).
    If someone of that time called you a Jezebel, she spoke a curse over you, or resembled your character with Jezebels.

    Or look to Thomas: a man who doubted the ressurected Jesus was real. Still today the saying remains (in our language (= Dutch) it says The unbelieving Thomas; or the doubting Thomas)

    So of the city, Babylon, it's a name reminding people of what happened there when the first Babylon (the one of the Bible) still existed.

    It is a way of living; If you have a Babylon system in religious terms it means with no order, no laws, no God...

    I'm not a theologican, and most of wha I wrote came of the little knowledge I have.
    Should I have said anything wrong, I appologise for that; as you know I'm also but a man.
    I thank the Holy Spirit, who grabbed these thoughts from my heart, and placed them in text; I tried to be as carefull as possible
    but again Im still human

    I hoped to be of service to you with this

    Greetings in Christ Jesus

    MaleC
     
  4. Blynn

    Blynn Well-Known Member

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    Thank you both for you input.


    Good insight. :) I for the most part I believe that it could be America too. I use to think that it was reffering to Iraq, but it doesn't seem to fit.


    What I always found interesting was the reference to "the merchant sailors, and those who trade......" I always think of the seaports of New York.

    Still got lots to learn in this prophecy stuff.

    God Bless,
    Roberta :angel:
     
  5. TRUTH

    TRUTH Prove All things! 1 Thes 5:21

    64
    +0
    The ancient city of Babylon had a religious system that mirrors ours today! They worshiped the sun, hence the first day of the week is named 'sunday' and decorated evergreen trees at the winter solstis, worship a goddess of fertility named "Ishtar" etc etc etc. Notice the great Harlot in Rev is a church that commits audultry with other gods. Do you know that the catholic church "christianized" paganism hundreds of years after Christ? Idolotry with other gods is adultry between God and his wife the church. God's Holy Days can all be found in the old testament and are described as 'perpetual covenants' 'forever' and the apostles did in fact keep them after Christ was gone. Any encyclopedia will tell you that the origins of our modern christianity is not biblical.
     
  6. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

    +2,076
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    In the Book of Revelation, "Babylon" refers to the Roman Empire, and especially the Roman State from Nero to Trajan; nothing more, nothing less. It certainly does not refer to the Western Hemisphere in the 21st century.

    Don't take Daniel and Revelation literally. :) Apocalyptic literature is not prophecy.
    Been reading Alexander Hislop or one of his clones, have we? :D

    Don't eat that, Grandma----that's horse manure. ;)
     
  7. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

    +9
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    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Hello Truth,
    And welcome to the forum. There is a lot of truth in what you said.
    Unfortunately most christians don't even realize how much the church has allowed paganism to enter its borders. God said He hates mens traditions, and most of the church keep blindly celebrating things that have no business in the church. Traditions are also mighty hard to break, ask me and my family, it was very tough, and while other family members outside the house don't understand, that makes it even tougher. Blind leading the blind. I would say - take a stand for what you believe in, and especially if you KNOW that it's right.
     
  8. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
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    Married
    >>Who or what do you think Babylon is?

    The Bible says that it takes a mind of wisdom to understand what Babylon is. So only those who have the mind of Christ and the wisdom of God will understand. The natural mind can not.

    Rev. 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

    Babylon is not a government, and it is not an economic system. It is a false religious system that seeks to destroy true Christianity.

    Some people consider it the the apostate church that has fallen away from God, the carnal jerusalam.

    Rev. 17:2
    With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
     
  9. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    Babylon represents the body of people who not only reject Christ, but cause others to reject Christ, usually by lies, half-truths, deceit, threats, promises and manipulation. They look and talk like they are Christians, but they are truly followers of satan. Like in the days when people were being persecuted by "the church" and were told that if they would reject their beliefs, they would be spared from more torture.

    Or people who draw away believers by mocking the faith.

    I think the Babylon of the end times will be an organization that imitates the church, but has at its heart the destruction of the faith. That's what makes it the great whore. They will pretend to worship God, but at the same time, by subverting others from worshipping God.
     
  10. Kirkland1244

    Kirkland1244 Regular Member

    195
    +3
    Anglican
    The Babylon Project was a dream given form. It's goal, to prevent another war by creating a place where humans and aliens could work out their differences peacefully. Its a port of call, home away from home for diplomats, hustlers, entrepeneurs and wanderers. Humans and aliens wrapped in two-million five hundred-thousand tons of spinning metal. All alone in the night. It can be a dangerous place, but it is our last, best hope for peace.

    Or as someone else once put it:

    The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace. A self-contailed world five miles long, located in neutral territory. A place of commerce and diplomacy for a quarter million humans and aliens. A shining beacon in space; all alone in the night.

    Or finally, the last authoritative opinion on the subject:

    The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace.... It failed. But in the year of the Shadow War it became something greater... our last, best hope for victory.

    Hope that clears things up.
     
  11. Wildfire

    Wildfire Member

    454
    +1
    Hi John; I just read your post. If Babylon is a religion, then how does the rest of the description fit in with that; the merchants were made rich by her, and all of her precious things that were found in her no more; ivory, wood, silk, iron, marble, etc. And every craftsman & musician was heard no more. It just seems to emphasize upon her richness; I am just wondering. thanks.
     
  12. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    Somre religions put a lot of emphasis on the beauty and richness of their facilities and leaders. Craftsmen and merchants get rich from her because she spent so much money on lavish appointments and decorations for their worship places and collections of riches. When she stops buying from them, they mourn and groan because they are being deprived of their best customer.

    They ignore true religion (taking care of the helpless) so they can spend more on superficial and perishing beauty.
     
  13. celtic_crusader

    celtic_crusader Crusading Against Jihad

    282
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    5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.


    9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

    babylon of revelations is most definatly "ROME".

    Rome is the only great city to sit on 7 hills as john says that she does.

    today she displays herself as ancient babylonian sungod worship and godess worship.

    we will also find this in Rome with the vatican being almost identical to baal worship of babylon with christian terms put in place as the great deception that causes people to believe a lie because they don`t have a love for the truth.

    so , babylon is Rome and in modern times it is still Rome with the vatican riding the beast with the 10 europian tribes through the dark and middle age up till now.

    it will be removed by the power of jesus words at his coming.

    thats what I recon anyway.

    celti :cool:
     
  14. TheBear

    TheBear Free Agent

    +1,694
    Atheist
    Private
    Babylon is a song by David Gray. It goes something like this.......

    [In the key of Dmaj7]

    Friday night I'm going nowhere
    All the lights are changing green to red
    Turning over TV stations
    Situations running through my head

    Looking back through time
    You know it's clear that I've been blind
    I've been a fool
    To open up my heart
    To all that jealousy, that bitterness, that ridicule

    Saturday I'm running wild
    And all the lights are changing red to green
    Moving through the crowd I'm pushing
    Chemicals all running through my bloodstream

    Only wish that you were here
    You know I'm seeing it so clear
    I've been afraid
    To show you how I really feel
    Admit to some of those bad mistakes I've made

    If you want it
    Come and get it
    Crying out loud
    The love that I was
    Giving you was
    Nerver in doubt
    Let go your heart
    Let go your head
    And feel it now
    Let go your heart
    Let go your head
    And feel it now

    Babylon, Babylon......


    (There's another verse, but I'm too lazy to type it.) :p

    Enjoy! :clap:

    John
     
  15. Blynn

    Blynn Well-Known Member

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    Now that I am totally confused..... :eek:

    Just kidding.

    Thank you all for your input and replies.



    Cool song The Bear. Thanks


    Going now to re-read the book of Revelation. :)



    God Bless All,
    Roberta
     
  16. Blynn

    Blynn Well-Known Member

    +78
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    I do have another question.


    Are we looking at an actual revived roman empire or the system that was in place during that time period?



    Any thoughts?



    Roberta
     
  17. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

    +2,076
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    Correct. The Roman Empire---not the Roman Catholic Church.
    A city on seven hills....hmmm.
    • Kampala, Uganda
    • Thiruvanathapuram, India
    • Plovdiv, Bulgaria
    • Amman, Jordan
    • Ellicot City, Maryland
    • Lisbon, Portugal
    • Besancon, France
    • Seattle, Washington
    • Cincinnati, Ohio
    • Istanbul, Turkey
    (My personal vote is Ellicot City, Maryland---where could you ever find a more sinister municipality? ;) )
    If you mean Catholicism, hogwash. Burn your copy of Hislop and go buy a Catholic catechism. You'll find out that Catholics do not consider Mary a goddess.

    Incidentally, you might be interested to know that at the time John wrote Revelation, the "seven hills" that Rome sat on consisted of of the Aventine, Palatine, Esquiline, Caelian, Capitoline, Viminal, and Qurinal hills; three more hills actually sat outside the city limits in the sticks: Pincian, Janiculum, and Vatican. Interesting, no? :)
     
  18. Blynn

    Blynn Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Wolseley for the information. :)



    God Bless,
    Roberta
     
  19. TRUTH

    TRUTH Prove All things! 1 Thes 5:21

    64
    +0
    Celtic - you are right - The Catholic church will even call themselves the Mother church and they want the daughter to come home (protestant churches) and she is responsible for the adopting the babylonian religion and giving it christian names. Protestant churches merely followed many of those teachings - hence daughters. Why doesn't it bother people that christmas and easter are so obviously nonexistent in the Bible?!?!!?
     
  20. celtic_crusader

    celtic_crusader Crusading Against Jihad

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    thanks truth,
    I recon I am right as well. I think the daughter idea is worth thinking about to.


    Wolseley ,
    out of all of those citys that you mentioned , John was most definatly not speaking about any of them as none of them fit the prophesy of this citys greatness as ROME does.

    as for the rest of your post , thanks , what you say strengthens my belief about the vatican and the papecy still being in the place he sat in the middle and dark ages.

    I wonder if the next pope will have a bit more charisma than this one and he could turn things back to the dark age with his power and influance.

    you know the time I speak off , when they burned all of those christians that wouldn`t recant to the antichrist so he killed them.

    things may have been dormant with the vatican for a generation because of a weak pope but I ashore you when he is gone , they will show there authority and power again and we will see the antichrist in full swing when the horns worship her again because of a simple change in popes.

    we will see hay???

    I remember the papacys stand in the second world war and before that , they are real good at sweeping thing under the carpet but all will be revieled at the return of jesus when he will expose the man of sin and remove him forever.

    celtic.
     
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