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fozzy
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*shakes dust off feet*
Bye, bye! Mr. Remnant. The remnant church of bible prophecy are all those with the faith of Jesus who keep his commandments of love so your church doesn't qualify.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Bye, bye! Mr. Remnant. The remnant church of bible prophecy are all those with the faith of Jesus who keep his commandments of love so your church doesn't qualify.
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fozzy
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Remnant brought up an idea in a prior post that is common with nearly all prophecy students and that is that beasts always represent nations in the bible. So I thought we would go thru some examples in the bible to see if this is true. His particular church is notorious for demonizing Catholics all because of a prophetic belief that they cannot even defend from the bible. We need to be careful when we blindly accept the truths of those that came before us. They were fallible human beings just like us and prone to mistakes. The bible says study to show thyself approved of God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth 2Tim. 2:15.
1) The sanctuary service of the Israelites had many animals or beasts that were symbolic of something bigger. The most common were the bull or cow, ram, goat, and lamb. The lamb in particular was especially associated with Christ who is the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world John 1:29. On the day of atonement there were two goats that were used with one for the Lord and the other for the scapegoat. All the sins of the children of Israel were placed on the head of the scapegoat and he was sent into the wilderness most likely representing Satan who will bear the sins of the saved during the millennium when he is placed back into the bottomless pit. So we see here that all the animals typified Christ and one who typified Satan neither of which are nations.
2) In Daniel chap. 10 the angel Gabriel is in a battle with someone called the prince of Persia for 21 days. This prince who is also symbolized by a ram with two horns actually prevents Gabriel from coming to Daniel in answer to his prayer. So this was no ordinary prince and he was actually doing pretty well against Gabriel until Michael came to help him out. There is no possible way that this prince was Cyrus the Great because how could he fight and prevail against the highest angel of heaven? This prince of Persia was a fallen angel who did what all fallen angels do which is fight against the good or loyal angels. Another example of a beast in the bible that is identified as an angel. Also Michael is said to be a prince as well and we know for certain that he is not a nation.
3) Revelation chap. 5 gives us a picture of a Lamb what had been slain with seven eyes and seven horns. This Lamb is Christ and the seven eyes and horns are identified as the seven spirits of God that are sent into all the earth. The seven spirits are also identified as seven stars or angels of the seven churches in Rev. 1:20. This is an important principle in identifying beasts and horns in Daniel and Revelation. The head is in charge of the horns and they are not the same entity. If a beast is other than Christ say a fallen angel then the head would represent the angel and the horn would represent the earthly or human kings that he controls. There are no nations represented here at all.
4) In Revelation chap. 9 there is a king who is released from the bottomless pit who is called Abaddon or Apollyon the destroyer. He is said to be the angel of the bottomless pit or Satan with many commentators identifying him as the beast who ascends out of the earth and speaks as a dragon in chap. 13. This beast has two horns like a lamb but speaks as a dragon implying that Satan will use deceit when he comes and impersonates Christ. This beast calls fire down out of heaven and performs miracles, signs and lying wonders which are things that only an individual could perform not a nation.
5) Lastly the great red dragon with seven heads and ten horns is identified as Satan or the devil in Revelation chap. 12. This beast is once again not a nation but a combination of all the beasts from Daniel chap. 7 i.e. the lion, bear, leopard and 4th beast. The heads are said to be kings or mountains which are religious in nature and the horns are identified as kings which have received no kingdom as yet. It is very possible that horns do represent the leaders of nations and I have no problem with that but to say that all beasts in Daniel and Revelation are nations is a fallacy. Evil men are controlled by evil angels and this is the best way to view the heads/horns relationship of prophetic beasts.
1) The sanctuary service of the Israelites had many animals or beasts that were symbolic of something bigger. The most common were the bull or cow, ram, goat, and lamb. The lamb in particular was especially associated with Christ who is the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world John 1:29. On the day of atonement there were two goats that were used with one for the Lord and the other for the scapegoat. All the sins of the children of Israel were placed on the head of the scapegoat and he was sent into the wilderness most likely representing Satan who will bear the sins of the saved during the millennium when he is placed back into the bottomless pit. So we see here that all the animals typified Christ and one who typified Satan neither of which are nations.
2) In Daniel chap. 10 the angel Gabriel is in a battle with someone called the prince of Persia for 21 days. This prince who is also symbolized by a ram with two horns actually prevents Gabriel from coming to Daniel in answer to his prayer. So this was no ordinary prince and he was actually doing pretty well against Gabriel until Michael came to help him out. There is no possible way that this prince was Cyrus the Great because how could he fight and prevail against the highest angel of heaven? This prince of Persia was a fallen angel who did what all fallen angels do which is fight against the good or loyal angels. Another example of a beast in the bible that is identified as an angel. Also Michael is said to be a prince as well and we know for certain that he is not a nation.
3) Revelation chap. 5 gives us a picture of a Lamb what had been slain with seven eyes and seven horns. This Lamb is Christ and the seven eyes and horns are identified as the seven spirits of God that are sent into all the earth. The seven spirits are also identified as seven stars or angels of the seven churches in Rev. 1:20. This is an important principle in identifying beasts and horns in Daniel and Revelation. The head is in charge of the horns and they are not the same entity. If a beast is other than Christ say a fallen angel then the head would represent the angel and the horn would represent the earthly or human kings that he controls. There are no nations represented here at all.
4) In Revelation chap. 9 there is a king who is released from the bottomless pit who is called Abaddon or Apollyon the destroyer. He is said to be the angel of the bottomless pit or Satan with many commentators identifying him as the beast who ascends out of the earth and speaks as a dragon in chap. 13. This beast has two horns like a lamb but speaks as a dragon implying that Satan will use deceit when he comes and impersonates Christ. This beast calls fire down out of heaven and performs miracles, signs and lying wonders which are things that only an individual could perform not a nation.
5) Lastly the great red dragon with seven heads and ten horns is identified as Satan or the devil in Revelation chap. 12. This beast is once again not a nation but a combination of all the beasts from Daniel chap. 7 i.e. the lion, bear, leopard and 4th beast. The heads are said to be kings or mountains which are religious in nature and the horns are identified as kings which have received no kingdom as yet. It is very possible that horns do represent the leaders of nations and I have no problem with that but to say that all beasts in Daniel and Revelation are nations is a fallacy. Evil men are controlled by evil angels and this is the best way to view the heads/horns relationship of prophetic beasts.
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fozzy
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Continuing on with our identification of Babylon it is said that she was arrayed in purple and scarlet and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls Rev. 17:4. I have heard many commentators immediately point out that the Catholic clergy wear these colors in churches that are filled with gold and precious stones but say nothing of the fact that these were the same articles found in the Jewish sanctuary service. Bezalel and Oholiab were commanded to make everything for the service of the sanctuary in the time of Moses. They were given skill in the making of articles out of gold and silver and brass; in the craftsmanship of cutting and mounting precious stones and carving wood; and embroidering with scarlet and purple yarn into fine linen cloth. This fine scarlet and purple cloth was used for the sanctuary and the vestments for Aaron the high priest. The ephod that he wore was woven with golden thread and scarlet and purple yarn with the breastplate being mounted with twelve precious stones set in a golden filigree work.
The merchandise of Babylon is an exact listing of the articles that went into the construction of the sanctuary in the wilderness and the more permanent temple with cinnamon and odours and ointments and frankincense. The cinnamon was used with other spices to make the holy anointing oil that was used to anoint the tabernacle, all the furniture and even the ark of the covenant. The frankincense was used to make a perfume of odors that was placed before the tabernacle as a sweet savor unto God. The final articles were all used in the sacrificial ceremonies with king Solomon commanding a fleet of horses and chariots and an ivory throne that was the envy of the world. Babylon in its truest form is the old covenant and the crown jewel of the old covenant was the temple. Many question the belief that there will be a 3rd temple in the last days citing that it would be blasphemy to go back to the types and shadows in the age of grace. Well, theyre right it would be blasphemy and thats exactly why it will happen.
The merchandise of Babylon is an exact listing of the articles that went into the construction of the sanctuary in the wilderness and the more permanent temple with cinnamon and odours and ointments and frankincense. The cinnamon was used with other spices to make the holy anointing oil that was used to anoint the tabernacle, all the furniture and even the ark of the covenant. The frankincense was used to make a perfume of odors that was placed before the tabernacle as a sweet savor unto God. The final articles were all used in the sacrificial ceremonies with king Solomon commanding a fleet of horses and chariots and an ivory throne that was the envy of the world. Babylon in its truest form is the old covenant and the crown jewel of the old covenant was the temple. Many question the belief that there will be a 3rd temple in the last days citing that it would be blasphemy to go back to the types and shadows in the age of grace. Well, theyre right it would be blasphemy and thats exactly why it will happen.
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